WEBVTT 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:07.000 So, thank you Chin for 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:09.000 inviting me to talk about -- 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.000 taboo topics in counseling -- 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:14.000 this is this topics that are 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:15.000 actually really interesting 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.000 to me I enjoy these kinds 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.000 of things when they crop up 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:20.000 in the counseling relationship 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:22.000 when I first got the idea 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000 that they were looking for 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.000 someone to talk about things 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:25.000 my initial impression was to 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.000 talk about spirituality and 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.000 religion in the counseling 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.000 relationship but then it was 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.000 tossed up to kind of include maybe 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:35.000 some other topics that would 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:37.000 come up so I didn't actually 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:38.000 prepare for this kind of a 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.000 dynamic but what I intended to 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.000 do was rather to kind of take 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.000 like a case study approach 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.000 I'll talk about it in the next slide 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.000 but you may find that I'm 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 bringing up some things that 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:50.000 aren't necessarily like taboo 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.000 so if you're expecting that 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:52.000 like how do we address fifty 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:53.000 shades of grey in a counseling 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.000 relationship we may not have 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:57.000 like an example like that but 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:58.000 rather what I kinda came to 00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:61.000 terms with is that a taboo 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.000 and what is taboo mean can 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.000 I get some -- some ideas 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.000 so topics that polite society 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.000 avoid sure I think that's 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.000 actually really good any other 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.000 definitions anyone else house 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.000 I'm looking for something 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.000 else why are they -- not 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.000 polite to discuss in kind of 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.000 normal cultural situations 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:26.000 yes topics that make them feel 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.000 uncomfortable specifically 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:30.000 us as clinicians right so 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.000 fitting that we're coming up on 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.000 Thanksgiving because those are 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:34.000 the three things not to talk 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.000 about at the Thanksgiving table right 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:39.000 religion, politics and 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:44.000 money right finances so I am 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:45.000 kind of prepping for that -- I 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.000 do want to create you all know 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:49.000 as a person centered therapist 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.000 my goal is to create this kind 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.000 of safe space so I want you 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:54.000 all to feel comfortable we 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.000 will be going through personal 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.000 values I'll be asking for you 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.000 guys to share I'm hoping it 00:01:59.000 --> 00:01:60.000 will be a little bit like a 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.000 seminar class in terms of you 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:03.000 guys raising your hands getting 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.000 interactive we'll do some group 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.000 things I'll give you guys some 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.000 time to process their some of 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.000 the little case studies I have 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.000 about -- the things that we're 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.000 talking about in context of of 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.000 your future work with clients 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.000 right so how do you respond to 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.000 each other in this classroom 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.000 is how I'm assuming you're 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.000 gonna respond your clients 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:24.000 in the field right so keep 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.000 that with you -- because I 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:28.000 will poke and prod and I have 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.000 created case studies to kind 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.000 of intentionally prod and 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.000 incite some kind of feelings 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.000 from within each of you and -- 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:40.000 if that happens that's part of 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:41.000 the goal if nothing else just 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.000 expect me to pick on you and 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.000 highlight and I ask you why 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.000 is that uncomfortable and see 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:48.000 if we can get some of those 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.000 values cuz we'll be spending a lot 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:51.000 of time talking about that so 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.000 what is a taboo topics 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:54.000 we sort of address it already 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:55.000 but I did pull a definition 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.000 from dictionary.com and 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.000 specifically focused on three 00:02:59.000 --> 00:02:62.000 particular aspects we kind of 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:03.000 addresses kind of prohibited 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:05.000 thing things that are excluded 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:06.000 from things that we're not 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.000 supposed to talk about system 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.000 practice or act where things 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.000 are set apart and will focus on 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:14.000 the forbidden for general use 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.000 or placed under probation and 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.000 then in particular condition 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:19.000 of being set apart forbidden 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.000 or interdicted surprisingly 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:22.000 those last two definitions 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:25.000 apparently are most common in 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:27.000 the Pacific Islander kind of 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:28.000 southern Pacific Islander kind 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.000 of cultural understandings I 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:32.000 didn't put that in here but it 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:33.000 was interesting that it noted 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:36.000 that for diversity sake -- 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.000 and they define culture so how 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.000 or maybe culture defines them 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.000 so where do these things come from 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.000 family sure we have that 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.000 one yeah okay what else so 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.000 norms right and norms are kind 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.000 of socially constructed agreed 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.000 upon values that we choose to 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.000 operate under and we agree is 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.000 the polite thing to do right 00:03:59.000 --> 00:03:61.000 sort of political correctness 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.000 in some way it's kind of a norm 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:06.000 right yeah yes that's a big 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.000 one right personal experience 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.000 because all of us come from 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.000 different backgrounds different 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:12.000 experiences and those shape kind 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.000 of our own cultural personal 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.000 norms and then of course they 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.000 integrate into our experience 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.000 beyond ourselves and beyond our 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.000 families is there more did I 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:25.000 miss any so yes finances and 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:26.000 what I'm hoping to do is you'll 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.000 see that some of these go both 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.000 ways right could be finances 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.000 a topic that's concerning to 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:33.000 the client but also for the 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:34.000 clinician who you're asking 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.000 for the debit card credit card 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.000 or cash right at the end of 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.000 your session or before your 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:41.000 session in fact that could be 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:42.000 a taboo topic to where do you 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.000 ask for your money before after 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.000 session during session religion 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.000 sexuality politics anything 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.000 I may have missed language 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.000 give me an example so being a 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.000 hearing person and kind of a 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.000 deaf world ranked actually on 00:04:58.000 --> 00:04:60.000 that topic too I was thinking 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.000 how that's changed but that was 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.000 kind of a difficult topic right 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:09.000 sure for the deaf community 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.000 yeah yeah anything else I was 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.000 a good one I hadn't thought 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.000 about language in addition to 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.000 maybe to add on to language 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.000 just use of foul language 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:23.000 right it's kind of a sure yeah 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.000 disability and ableism oh 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.000 I'm a rehab counselor that one should've 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.000 been up there thank you yeah 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:33.000 thinking so socioeconomic 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.000 status and then we could 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000 even add on to that like I 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.000 guess not so much in America 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.000 I mean we do have a kind of 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.000 a rich poor kind of scale 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:44.000 but I'm thinking like anyone 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.000 into Downton Abbey something 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.000 like that the English kind of 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:48.000 hierarchy right so so that's 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.000 definitely some some areas 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.000 that can they can produce these things 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:55.000 this one in particular 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.000 is more intended just to 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.000 incite some feelings I want 00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:59.000 to get these kind of personal 00:05:59.000 --> 00:05:62.000 values under control so so 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:11.000 read through this case study 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000 so this is never happened to 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.000 me but it's happened to other 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.000 therapist I've I've met and 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.000 talked about stories with 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:18.000 so so how would you respond 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:22.000 to a situation like that 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.000 so money is money I won't 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.000 judge you on how you make it 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:27.000 any other thoughts that's where 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.000 I would want to go as a clinician 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.000 wondering what kind of created 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:33.000 this need to kind of voice this 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.000 comment to me so being curious 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:36.000 as to why the client needs 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.000 to use that statement right 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.000 in direction to us would you 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.000 continue to take the payment 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.000 so no one in the room as kind 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:48.000 of morally kind of persuaded 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.000 from this let me kind 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.000 of summarize this one so there 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:54.000 would be some concerns for 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.000 you to address with the client 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:57.000 about some stake my being in a 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.000 particular cultural environment 00:06:59.000 --> 00:06:61.000 right like on the reservation 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.000 specifically around drugs and 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:04.000 I don't know about prostitution 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.000 or anything like that but 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.000 that's everywhere as well so -- 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:12.000 any other thoughts so everyone 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.000 in here would still take the 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.000 money does it feel weird when I 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.000 say that I I get some head nods 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:22.000 yes some shaking maybe anyone 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:26.000 that's like no we're done so 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.000 we're back to non judgment I 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:29.000 won't judge the client for how 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:33.000 they make their living okay 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:34.000 for some of you were shaking 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.000 your head is like maybe or like 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:40.000 no are you willing to share any kind 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.000 of reasons for why so little 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.000 iffy for you yeah so this is 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.000 the direction I'm heading so 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:48.000 we're looking at either is 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.000 there an ethical or legal issue 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:54.000 right and which might cause me 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:55.000 to be in some sort of danger 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:56.000 right that's a little more than 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.000 you said but that's what you're 00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:60.000 feeling right sure okay 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:02.000 so I did want to tie in a little 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.000 bit of research I have to say 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.000 it was difficult figuring out 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.000 how to find the right wording 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:10.000 to put into the search boxes 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:11.000 at like through the library 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.000 because you type in taboo and 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.000 there's a couple of things 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.000 counseling I tried difficult 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.000 conversations I tried value 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:20.000 imposition but then you get a 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.000 whole bunch of ethics but not 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.000 necessarily talking about like 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.000 how difficult percentage wise 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:27.000 is it for counselors to talk 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:28.000 about these things and what 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.000 are those topics which kind of 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.000 made me wonder then is it sort 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.000 of a taboo topic for research 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.000 you because if we don't know 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.000 address that it's just kind 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.000 of my -- suspicion but I don't know 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.000 but I did find a few that 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.000 I thought were interesting so 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.000 sexuality there was a survey of 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.000 three hundred twelve counseling 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.000 graduate students in a revamped 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.000 housing program and a sixteen 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.000 point seven percent reported 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.000 no training at all on the 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:57.000 subject of sexuality fourteen 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:59.000 point four identified one 00:08:59.000 --> 00:08:61.000 to six class periods so not 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.000 necessarily a separate class 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.000 but just infused throughout 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.000 programs and then ten point 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.000 six reported less than one 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.000 semester worth of training so 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.000 that was interesting I thought 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:13.000 it would actually be a little 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.000 bit higher but then again I 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.000 only know my one experience 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.000 as well so I don't know then I 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.000 also found some on spirituality 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.000 transcendence they did some 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.000 scaling in terms of using 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.000 assessments for like comfortness 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:29.000 not just about discussing 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:30.000 the topic but with counselors 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.000 own understanding awareness 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.000 and ownership of their own 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.000 spirituality and transcendence 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.000 and only eighteen out of thirty 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.000 five fell into a high category 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.000 of that high insight they're 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.000 knowledgeable about themselves 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:45.000 how it applies to them it would 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:46.000 be comfortable bringing that up 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.000 with clients and only ten fell 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.000 into an average range so just 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.000 you know maybe probably do it 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.000 not sure about myself either 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:55.000 but everyone else kind of 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:58.000 fell into that not comfortable 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.000 don't know what to do doesn't 00:09:59.000 --> 00:09:61.000 even make sense to me 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:04.000 programs that foster spirituality 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.000 religiosity into their into 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.000 their programs they had twenty 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:10.000 eight program directors who 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.000 responded to reported offering 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.000 a specific and distinct course 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.000 eleven reported a variety 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:18.000 of classes in which it gets 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.000 infused thinking probably like 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.000 diversity fifteen reported no 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:25.000 incorporation was an important 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:26.000 part of the curriculum and 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:29.000 then three reported sending 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:30.000 students to other universities 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.000 to get the specific training 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.000 so if you think about this in 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.000 terms of the programs there's 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.000 kind of these blind spots to 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.000 certain things even though I 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.000 think I have it here most of 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.000 the respondents agree that 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:44.000 spirituality was an important 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.000 component outside of the 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.000 addictions program where thats 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.000 course facilitated with the 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000 twelve steps but as you can 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.000 see it's still kind of a well 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.000 you'll get it at some point 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:56.000 you'll figure it out as you go 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.000 then of course as I mentioned 00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:59.000 before there are plenty more 00:10:59.000 --> 00:10:61.000 topics we've already identified 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.000 them I'm just curious if anyone 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:04.000 else has any thoughts or 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.000 reasons why it's so hard to 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:08.000 find in the research 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.000 so a function spot on with that it's 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:11.000 just kind of a blind spot no 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.000 reason for the research maybe 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.000 or -- it protects us all I 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.000 suppose to some degree and 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.000 then I would encourage all 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:19.000 of you if you're interested 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:20.000 in doctoral study here's some 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:21.000 things to kind of focus on and 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.000 look at right and I want to 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.000 be able to find some research 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.000 article that says taboo topics 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:28.000 list them and then have these 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.000 percentages about how difficult 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.000 it is to talk for them so 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:34.000 where do we start in terms of 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.000 understanding how these things 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.000 impact ourselves our practice 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.000 with our clients and actually 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.000 impact just the client's well being 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.000 in the room thoughts so 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.000 the whole idea a counselor 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.000 know they self right starts here 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.000 how well do I know myself and 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.000 accept myself there is some 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.000 other hands Tanya no that same 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.000 thing so again self awareness 00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:62.000 where else perfect so once we 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.000 become aware of blind spots 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.000 we need to seek training to be 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:06.000 able to support those blind spots 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.000 sure yeah so the idea that 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.000 the other person no matter how 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.000 similar you are will experience 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.000 things differently right even 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.000 the identical twin we'll have 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.000 a different perception and 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.000 experience of living the family 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.000 life than the same genetic -- 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.000 clone next to him so to speak 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.000 right sure there's a big kind 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:27.000 of number two I'm looking for 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.000 any thoughts and ideas before 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.000 I give it to you yes ethics 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.000 which you guys have this term right 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.000 yes so always consult with a 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:40.000 code of ethics right again not 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:41.000 that it's going to give you 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:42.000 a clear cut black and white 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.000 answer but the idea is that 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.000 pathway and the guided lights 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.000 if you will down that path so 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.000 that you can hopefully address 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:52.000 some of these blind spots that 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.000 you're seeing and then also 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.000 seek supervision so you had 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.000 a guest speaker last time who 00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:58.000 talked about supervision so 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:60.000 I won't go too much into that 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.000 but I hope that was helpful 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:02.000 in terms of realizing what 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.000 that relationship can do and 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:05.000 I would say that a lot of 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.000 this information right here 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:08.000 is from my own experience of 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.000 supervision and bringing up 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.000 I don't know what to do these 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.000 are difficult things or I'm 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.000 really worried I might impose 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.000 or say something that I don't 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.000 mean to him and how that might 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.000 impact the relationship so 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.000 take just a few minutes and 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.000 again I want you guys to be 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.000 collaborative so phone a friend 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.000 poll the audience whatever it 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.000 takes but think about three 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.000 of the most difficult topics 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.000 that you feel would be hard 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.000 for you to talk about with 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.000 a client in counseling and 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:36.000 then I want you to hone in 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.000 on the values and beliefs 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.000 that are challenged by that 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.000 difficult topic and we'll start 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.000 there so go ahead with that 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:49.000 music 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.000 so what might be an 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.000 uncomfortable topic to address 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.000 for the client child sexual 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.000 violence yeah I realize they 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.000 shouldn't have to ask why would 00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:59.000 that be an uncomfortable thing 00:13:59.000 --> 00:13:62.000 to talk about but just why 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.000 we talked about it depends on the 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.000 situation as well -- we said 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:07.000 if it's somebody that you're 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:08.000 already ten sessions and with 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.000 and built rapport you want to be 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.000 there and work with them if 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:13.000 it's somebody that's coming in 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.000 because of this or because of 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.000 something else it's harder to 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.000 have that kind of empathy -- 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:20.000 but I just I've seen outcome 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.000 of it and I know how damaging 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:23.000 it can be and I think that's 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.000 a valuable one for clinicians 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.000 is we can see the effects of 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.000 it right theoretically from 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.000 our training but real life 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.000 we've seen what happens to 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.000 individuals who go through this 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.000 and so it can be very difficult 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:36.000 to kind of work in the process 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:37.000 with someone who's on the 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.000 perpetrating side versus the 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.000 experiencing side and we'll have a 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:42.000 case that a little later that 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.000 kind of highlights something 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:47.000 like that maybe one more -- 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.000 difficult topic to discuss 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.000 I think for me personally I 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.000 I value marriage and so if I 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.000 was working with a client who 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.000 was serially and you know 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:60.000 unfaithful to their spouse 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.000 I think that that would be 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:02.000 something that I would have 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.000 to keep myself in check about 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.000 so that I can I could strive 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.000 to be objective and thank you 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.000 I appreciate because you're 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.000 already kind of spelling 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:12.000 out this kind of underlying 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.000 self I am a human person who 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.000 functions as a counselor but 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.000 I have these values things 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:18.000 that I believe things that I 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.000 hold true and when those become 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:22.000 disconnected challenged or 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.000 just way out of left field it 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:26.000 can be hard for us to kind of 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.000 whoo what is this about it's 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:29.000 hard for me to maintain that 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:31.000 objectivity like you said so 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.000 I appreciate that thank you 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.000 for sharing that one all right 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.000 so all of you I hope were at 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.000 least able to identify one in 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.000 a part of me says of course 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:43.000 some of you in here probably 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:44.000 thinking well I'm a counselor I 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:45.000 should be able to work with 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.000 everyone yes but you're also a 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.000 human being and that brings up 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.000 a lot of stuff with it and so 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:52.000 that's the important part of 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.000 our self care is to recognize 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.000 these things about ourselves 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.000 honor them but then just sort 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.000 of kind of compartmentalize 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:60.000 put that on a shelf and be 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.000 able to work with what's in 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:02.000 front of us at the moment no 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:05.000 matter how foreign how scary 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.000 how difficult it may be for us 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:08.000 but it's not to run away from 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:09.000 them but it's intentionally 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.000 to kind of set those aside 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:12.000 I think you are probably using 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.000 Corey's textbook for ethics so I 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.000 brought my Corey's text as well 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.000 in in here in chapter three is 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.000 a little self assessment for 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.000 values maybe you guys took it 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.000 in class so I won't spend time 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.000 on it but I really highlight 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.000 going through Corey's text 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.000 because he has a lot of these 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.000 chapter self inventories what 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.000 a wonderful way to check in 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.000 with yourself and sort of 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:38.000 identify who oh an area that 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.000 might be difficult for me 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:41.000 so I realize this question may 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.000 not be completely clear and we 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.000 won't do the group thing but in 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.000 thinking about the two topics 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.000 and more that were raised one 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.000 about like perpetrator of abuse 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.000 the other one with kind of 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.000 serially cheating on a spouse 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:61.000 hone in on what is the central 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:04.000 fear for you all as counselors 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.000 and having these conversations 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.000 doing harm to the client for 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.000 sure and what kind of harm 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.000 so certainly re-triggering by 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.000 walking through those events 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:16.000 anything else that you guys 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.000 can think of we're both tied 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.000 here -- Nacosa 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.000 putting my values on the client 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.000 when I don't want to 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.000 yes what do we call that counter transference 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.000 value position value transference 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.000 will go without one this is 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.000 one of the most serious I think 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.000 well ethical crimes ah -- 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:36.000 I say crimes but that didn't quite 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.000 fit so ethical crimes that we 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.000 as clinicians can do right 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.000 because again all of our job 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.000 requires intentionality and 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.000 so unfortunately we can have 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.000 intentional -- imposition of 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.000 value but we can also have 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:50.000 kind of an absent minded 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.000 oblivious ignorant kind of 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.000 imposition of values as well 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.000 so we'll try to highlight 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:56.000 a couple of those and with 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:58.000 that kind of looks like -- 00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.000 but just I'm safe to say be 00:17:59.000 --> 00:17:60.000 on the lookout that's one 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.000 of the most dangerous things 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.000 clinicians can do any thoughts 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.000 comments questions I think 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.000 as a counselor like you said 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:10.000 there's certain things that we 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.000 have to be we have to be very 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.000 self aware of know how to deal 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.000 with and I also can't deny the 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.000 fact that yeah forcing 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.000 myself to work with somebody 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.000 that I know that not that it's 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.000 going to be a challenge but that 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.000 every day I'm going to leave 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.000 my office hating life you know 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.000 I can practice self care I 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.000 want to having to hear about 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.000 something more like it's not 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.000 even necessarily about the 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.000 the person at that point it's 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.000 taking care of myself so 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.000 I think also being self aware 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.000 making sure that I'm practicing 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.000 self care knowing my limits on 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:42.000 what amount of self care will 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.000 be that is something I should 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.000 have addressed I often ask 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.000 where is the bottom line which 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.000 decision right like what has to 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.000 take place before we get that 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.000 energy drive and motivation 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.000 and I think you're right same 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.000 for us as clinicians right 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:57.000 these things will take a toll 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.000 on us and how do we -- know 00:18:59.000 --> 00:18:61.000 our bottom line at what point 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.000 are we compromised or we are 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.000 unable to do our job effectively 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.000 and how do we remove ourselves 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.000 from that situation first of 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:10.000 all for our own safety let's 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.000 let's face that too right we do 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.000 have to take care of ourselves 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.000 but also for the client safety 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.000 because if we try to engage 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:19.000 in something that's that's too 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.000 difficult or that we just can't 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.000 see the blind spots -- it can 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:24.000 be just as dangerous on both 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.000 sides good point one of my top 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000 three with domestic violence 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.000 perpetrators so if I'm working 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.000 with somebody who comes in 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.000 and they want help and they're 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.000 like I want I want to stop 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.000 doing this help me I'm gonna 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.000 react very differently than 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.000 if I'm sitting with someone 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.000 who is court ordered to come 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:41.000 in and see me he was like well 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:42.000 I don't see a problem then 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.000 I'm probably not going to be 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:44.000 as helpful to them because I 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.000 have my own biases about that 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.000 yeah and it's interesting 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.000 too because that's another 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:50.000 topic it seems like this is -- 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.000 supervision topic as well but 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.000 these things all blend together as 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.000 you'll soon find out but -- at 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.000 what point do we transfer what 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:58.000 does that look like how do we 00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:60.000 discuss that right because it 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.000 may be transferring or maybe 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.000 closing what if this is not 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.000 an appropriate session and I 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.000 can be something as simple as 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.000 the level of care the client 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.000 requires a higher level of care 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.000 you know how do we facilitate 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.000 that process as well right so 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.000 we're not on the hook we are 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:15.000 but at the same time we're 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.000 on the hook to ensure best 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.000 service for our clients right 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.000 so we need to just figure out 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.000 what that process looks like 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.000 good point so the ACA Code of 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.000 Ethics I went with this you 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.000 can follow your CRC 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.000 code of ethics as well because 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.000 it is pretty much the same 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.000 especially when it comes to 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.000 the imposing values and harm 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.000 avoiding harm of clients but 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:36.000 I chose ACA because it's also 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.000 the adopted ethical code for 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.000 the state of Oregon so those of 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.000 you looking for licensure LPC 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.000 licensure we'll be following 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.000 these codes anyway you 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.000 may have seen it before but 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.000 there it is for avoiding 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.000 harm personal values though 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.000 so counselors are aware of 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:52.000 and avoid imposing their own 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.000 values attitudes beliefs and 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.000 behaviors counselors respect 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.000 the diversity of clients as 00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.000 well as trainees research 00:20:59.000 --> 00:20:61.000 participants and seek training 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:02.000 in areas in which they are 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.000 at risk of imposing their own 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.000 values on to clients especially 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.000 when the counselors values are 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.000 inconsistent with the client's 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.000 goals or are discriminatory in 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.000 nature that sounds alarm 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.000 right nothing weird about 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.000 that then I highlighted some 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.000 kind of secondary ethical 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:21.000 considerations because they 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.000 blend in when we're talking 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000 about things like religion 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.000 spirituality right that 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.000 kind of falls under like 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.000 nondiscrimination right so 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.000 we're looking at diversity even 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:32.000 if it's not directly related 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.000 to like an imposition of value 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.000 right and both kind of because 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.000 it's an explicit and implicit 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:40.000 act right sometimes are varying -- 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.000 it's very clear what has gone 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.000 wrong but sometimes it can be 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:46.000 very hidden very subtle -- or 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.000 again like an oblivious comment 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.000 that just blurts out and it's 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.000 not to later we recognize oops 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.000 thought I'd carry those as well 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.000 but we won't spend too much 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.000 on time on those you can take 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:60.000 a look at those later so do 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.000 counselors have values sort of 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.000 hash that out I guess already 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.000 head nods I see yeses -- is that a bad thing 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.000 so I see head shaking no 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:18.000 anyone disagrees with that cool 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.000 so just a rehash that again 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.000 you yourself as a person with 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.000 a profession have a whole host 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.000 of routes for your values where 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.000 they come from including your 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:31.000 own profession in fact many of 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:32.000 your personal values probably 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:35.000 drove you to this program right 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.000 and so at some point we'll 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:39.000 see the intermingling of those 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.000 and then for those of you who 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.000 are cognitive behaviorists and 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.000 cling to that very strongly 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.000 they should sound very familiar 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.000 right because thought belief 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.000 and action are all kind of 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.000 rooted in kind of one thing 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.000 right if we have inconsistent 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.000 behavior we examine the thought 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.000 inconsistent thoughts become 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.000 look at behavior and all of 00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:58.000 those kind of give us the 00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:60.000 information we need about where 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.000 do we need to work so that as a 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.000 person centered therapist we're 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.000 focused on self actualization 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:08.000 authenticity congruence of 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.000 action and thought right so here 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.000 is your professional values and 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.000 principles so again rehashing 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.000 those ethical principles automony 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.000 non-malfeasance or maleficence 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.000 beneficence justice fidelity 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.000 and veracity so these are the 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.000 principles are lenses through 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.000 which we see every interaction 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.000 with our client and then 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:33.000 professional values I just 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.000 re-hashed a couple of them stated 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:38.000 specifically -- by the ACA 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.000 enhancing human development 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.000 honoring diversity embracing 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.000 multicultural approaches 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.000 support of worth dignity and 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.000 potential of all individuals 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.000 social justice advocacy and 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.000 the list goes on of all of 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.000 the lenses that we see the 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.000 situations of our clients and 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.000 how we are to behave in our 00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:60.000 interactions with those clients 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.000 so we've already addressed 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:03.000 counselor know yourself I 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.000 recommend all those personal 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.000 inventories whatever it is 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.000 you can do anyway kind of 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.000 challenging yourself not just 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.000 about what is that I feel about 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.000 all of these topics but really 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:14.000 digging down deep into why 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.000 these things remain with you 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.000 right why they remain focused 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.000 whatever that is remain a part 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.000 of your life I highly recommend 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.000 really taking on that 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.000 Rogerian approach right for 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.000 counselors to become authentic 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.000 congruent with who they are 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.000 in the room again like I said 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.000 even I get set on the shelf 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:35.000 those things are with you 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.000 and to know them alleviates a 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:38.000 lot of those kind of instant 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.000 reactions that we have when 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.000 things come up value systems 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.000 those are all important things 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.000 to think about and then of 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.000 course we've hashed out already 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.000 be aware of your personal bias 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.000 world views life choices so 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:53.000 with that how does our own 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.000 awareness change the counseling 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.000 relationship how does that 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.000 help our clients you have your 00:24:59.000 --> 00:24:62.000 disclosure statement and you're 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.000 letting them know what they're 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.000 getting into essentially right 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.000 so the informed consent piece 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:10.000 right sure so right away we're 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:11.000 giving them the option to take 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.000 ownership and kind of step 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.000 into that autonomy right so 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.000 that they can take actions 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.000 and choices for their own life 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:24.000 changes right anything else 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.000 and I'd say part of our 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.000 own awareness can help in 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.000 in session and that we can 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.000 be a good check in for what 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.000 the client is seeing and 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.000 experiencing from kind of 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.000 an objective person who has 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:36.000 a legitimate reason to kind 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.000 of say I wonder why you're 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.000 acting this way I kind of 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.000 feel like whatever it may be 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:44.000 right that the clients kind 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:46.000 of transferring on to you as 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:47.000 a way of checking in and we'll 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.000 talk a little bit more about that 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.000 so mixing professional 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.000 personal values morality falls 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:54.000 into here right we have to know 00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.000 what to keep kind of separate 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.000 from the action that we do 00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.000 but that doesn't mean that 00:25:59.000 --> 00:25:60.000 it's gonna kind of co mingle 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:02.000 right and this doesn't mean 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.000 that you will never need to 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.000 seek counseling on a regular 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.000 basis for yourself right because 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.000 if these mingle which they will 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.000 a what point how do I separate 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:14.000 that how do I continue to work 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.000 with this client who's making 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.000 choices that are so contrary 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.000 to my own beliefs and worldview 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.000 and how do I support them do 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.000 what's best for them and then 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:25.000 in contrast it should be asking 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.000 yourself the same questions 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.000 right what does that mean 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:29.000 for me how do I take care of 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.000 myself how do I persistent my 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:34.000 own life with these values 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:36.000 is there a danger with personal 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.000 values yes yes all heads bowed 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.000 yes -- is it only imposition 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.000 of value what else what else 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000 can come up from having our 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:54.000 own values yes judgment sure 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:55.000 we've talked before in class 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.000 too sometimes about like 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.000 personality disorders right 00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.000 kind of the instant kind of 00:26:59.000 --> 00:26:61.000 negation of like are they're 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:02.000 doing it again -- they're 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:03.000 never going to be successful 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.000 in therapy right like these 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.000 kind of outright judgments 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:07.000 assessments of people's 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.000 capabilities so from the 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.000 client's perspective but then 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.000 also from our own perspective 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.000 right what if something of ours 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.000 that we hadn't contemplated 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:16.000 does come up and it's 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.000 something serious from our 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.000 past and we're holding back 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.000 the tears mid session right 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:24.000 that's something to think about 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.000 something to kind pre-thought 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.000 into how do I manage that what would be my 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:32.000 escape plan yeah Koncha 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.000 even though you're trying to avoid 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:37.000 making them feel uncomfortable 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.000 sometimes your non verbals the 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.000 the tone of your voice 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:43.000 the way you asked the question -- can 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.000 come across as really shaming 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:47.000 even though you're not intending to 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.000 it's just because now you have this 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.000 kinda like -- like talk about like 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.000 up was like child sexual abuse 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.000 right so now you don't like 00:27:59.000 --> 00:27:61.000 this client because this you 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:04.000 know because that's going against your values 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.000 even though you choose to 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.000 continue to work with them -- 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.000 for whatever reason -- now you're 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.000 you could be harming them right 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:14.000 shaming them in the way that they're 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:18.000 not really intending to do totally and if I 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.000 can add a few pieces to that 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.000 even impacts our own affect our 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.000 display of emotion right I mean 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.000 obviously we're supposed to be 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.000 somewhat of the most happiest 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.000 person this person will meet 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:30.000 right maybe that's too much 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.000 to say happy but we have to 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.000 facilitate some sort of rapport 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.000 and a relationship right and 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.000 more often that succeeded by 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.000 having a much more positive 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.000 experience right but what if 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.000 that topic comes up in our face 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.000 just can't just can't put the 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.000 grin on or looks irritated 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.000 or looks uncomfortable what 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.000 does than do definitely yeah harm 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.000 right there's a bit of harm 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.000 in that relationship because 00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.000 the trust within ourselves 00:28:59.000 --> 00:28:60.000 the trust that we're trying to 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.000 create can't be met and matched 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.000 by that client yeah Tanya 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:07.000 so we're talking this morning in practicum 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.000 about using specific signs for things 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.000 so like you can find the 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.000 word abuse in many different 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:16.000 ways and it can mean certain 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.000 kind of certain different kinds 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.000 of abuse however in English 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.000 it's one word and it's just 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.000 kind of like you already know 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.000 what the background is for it 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.000 so do different ways for at 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:31.000 least for us our CD's in the 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:33.000 kinds of signs that we used to 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.000 talk to our clients yeah it may 00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.000 come up again but one of the 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000 things are sort of addressing 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.000 what that statement is 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.000 also our own perception right 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.000 so there's a variety of ways 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.000 to describe the level of abuse 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.000 and that's everything from 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.000 my husband pushed me to like 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.000 my face was slammed into the 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.000 ground right like there's 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.000 different spectrum there but 00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.000 then also how it's explained 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.000 as well when when a client says 00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:60.000 you know I'm happily married with 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.000 two children we operate under 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.000 a set of assumptions until 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.000 maybe that's destroyed right 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:06.000 and so those are important 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:07.000 things to remember because 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.000 we're operating under most 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:10.000 marriages are are healthy 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.000 happy or maybe or not maybe we 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.000 operate under the idea they're 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:15.000 not no relationship is healthy 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.000 they're horrible they should be 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000 they should be avoided at all 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.000 costs right that's where that 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.000 personal value may sneak into 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.000 this professional kind of 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.000 working relationship and how we 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:27.000 assess how we how we look and 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:31.000 how we gather our information yeah 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.000 environment that we create in our office 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.000 or even just the way that we 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.000 dress -- that that presents 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.000 ourself with a personal value 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.000 or personal set of values and 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.000 that can impact -- the client's 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.000 ability to open up or maybe 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.000 not open up to us if they 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.000 start if they also are making 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.000 judgments about what they 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:54.000 see in the environment sure 00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:55.000 so showing up to ah 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.000 therapy as the clinician in 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.000 a three piece suit can set 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:61.000 an agenda right or a feel and 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:02.000 ambience in the environment 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.000 that made just kind of shut 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:07.000 down some of that relationship 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:09.000 yeah for a long time people 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.000 had language deprivation were 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.000 seen as -- ADD or ADHD or out of 00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:15.000 the spectrum -- and they would 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.000 just get labeled as that even 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:18.000 though they maybe didn't have 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:19.000 that form of developmental 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:20.000 disability in the main issue 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:21.000 was language they just saw 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.000 that and assumed -- that's what 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.000 it was and then the treatment 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:27.000 plans for it are based on 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.000 something that's not actually 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.000 going to help the client right 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:32.000 yeah because if we don't have 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.000 the proper diagnostic label 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.000 them we don't have the proper 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:36.000 treatment and then we're just 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.000 like spaghetti on the wall 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.000 right sure all right so that 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.000 leads me then to sort of 00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:44.000 what we've been hinting at but 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.000 it's the idea of transference 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.000 and countertransference right 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.000 so transference is just the 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.000 basic part of the therapeutic 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.000 relationship right clients are 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.000 unloading kind of all of their 00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.000 world experience onto us right 00:31:59.000 --> 00:31:60.000 and the countertransference piece 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:02.000 comes when all of that 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.000 kind of sticks to us in some 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.000 way and I can never promise 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.000 that is just gonna roll off 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.000 like water off a duck's back I 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:11.000 don't know if that's possible 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:12.000 necessarily but I mean we 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:16.000 sort of try to do that and so 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:17.000 what that means though is a 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:18.000 real this kind of awareness and 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.000 insight right about ourselves 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.000 but what might come up and how 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:23.000 are we going to deal with that 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.000 in the moment and I say it's 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:27.000 actually quite helpful to do 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.000 like thought experiments right 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.000 so client comes in tells me 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:34.000 this thing what would I do 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.000 an so while you're driving to school 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.000 in the morning you think about 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.000 what I do how would I hold that 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.000 how would I put some of these 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.000 feelings beliefs off to the 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.000 side and how do I kind of stay 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.000 curious what questions what 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.000 I ask what would be important 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.000 to gather the information so 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:50.000 we're gonna dig into some case 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.000 studies pretty soon -- but I 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:54.000 did want to re-highlight these 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.000 kinds of things so I don't 00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:57.000 know if this picture makes any 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:60.000 sense incredibly hard to find 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.000 some sort of illustration about 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:03.000 countertransference but this 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.000 one had a therapist with his 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.000 note the client blowing his 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.000 nose in the tissue and the I 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.000 guess the counselors sentiments 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.000 was the tissues are for crying 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.000 so I'm imagining I don't know 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.000 allergies I don't know whatever 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.000 but is the closest thing I 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.000 could find to some sort of 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.000 countertransference where 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:25.000 this therapist has obviously 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.000 had a bad day and things are 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.000 being very very very much 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.000 clouded to a degree in which 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.000 it sounds like he's trying to 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:33.000 say my clients just use me 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.000 whatever insert whatever you 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.000 feel it is but yeah this is 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.000 something I think is rather 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.000 important to discuss and as 00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.000 new clinicians we don't expect 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:45.000 any of this be happening this 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:46.000 is what supervision support 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.000 and this is what your future 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.000 employment is intended to train 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:51.000 you for right you're getting 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.000 the fundamentals but countertransference 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000 can be a tool that 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000 you can use with their clients 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.000 right and it's less about my 00:33:59.000 --> 00:33:61.000 experience of what you just 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:03.000 said -- just did but it's more 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.000 about why is it that you're 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:06.000 doing that and here's what it 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.000 creates for me when I see that 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.000 happening and it's a way of 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.000 sort of tying in that personal 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.000 experience but it doesn't 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.000 have to be the self disclosure 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.000 that we always caution you 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000 against as well right again 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.000 with years of supervision and 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.000 training self disclosure is 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.000 another good tool that sort 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.000 of rooted in this model but 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:26.000 a lot of clinical supervisors 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.000 will tell you listening to 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.000 your instincts is usually a 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.000 good sign and what I would 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.000 always say is let that follow 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.000 you into supervision and your 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.000 supervisor will help you kind 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000 of discuss how that could be 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.000 kind of presented back to the 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.000 client in a useful way but I 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.000 thought it would be helpful to 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:44.000 give you a couple points and 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.000 of course you can refer back to 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.000 this but to see ways in which 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.000 the field actually knowledges 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:51.000 that countertransference 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:52.000 and self disclosure can 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.000 be really helpful tools 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:57.000 specifically in the sense that 00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.000 it can help us conceptualize 00:34:59.000 --> 00:34:60.000 the client's framework 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.000 right their interpersonal 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.000 relationships style how they 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:05.000 perceive the world and how 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.000 they interact based on those 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.000 those perceptions so pushing 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.000 buttons is not a bad thing as 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.000 the counselor or as the client 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:15.000 clients will push our 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:16.000 buttons all the time and it's 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:17.000 important to know what those 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.000 buttons are and being able to 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:21.000 observe that can give you much 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.000 more clinical criterion to 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.000 kind of explore and conceptualize 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.000 than just trying to avoid it 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.000 or just trying to end a session 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.000 because it's it's too much 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.000 too many buttons pushed out 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.000 one time and then of course 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.000 learning to mitigate automatic 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.000 triggers some of us have a lot 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.000 more autonomy and control over 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:41.000 our body and our actions and 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.000 our our facial expressions some 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.000 of us don't and it's important 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:46.000 to be able to kind of get some 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.000 control over that so that we 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.000 don't make too shocked in the 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:51.000 face unless of course that 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.000 shocked face is important for 00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.000 what's being discussed and for 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:58.000 creating change with that client 00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:59.000 I'm gonna start off with some 00:35:59.000 --> 00:35:60.000 little ones and like I said 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.000 these are gonna sound like 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:05.000 great big taboo topics but they 00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000 are topics that come up a lot 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:09.000 in supervision as I've kind 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.000 of been a part of supervision 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:12.000 groups and a lot of counselors 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.000 will often avoid some of these 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.000 things will sometimes not tell 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.000 their clinical supervisors and 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:20.000 go and then it comes back to 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.000 haunt them later and so from 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:23.000 within that context I feel 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.000 like they are taboo topics 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:28.000 so here's the first one 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:30.000 client who's consistently late 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:31.000 cancels at the last minute 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:33.000 forgets to do homework and 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:35.000 does not seem engaged in the 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.000 counseling process how might 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.000 you feel is the therapist that 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.000 this is happening to you yeah 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.000 I would try to explore what the barriers are 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.000 okay I like the action but 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:51.000 what would you feel maybe - concerened 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.000 concerned okay I think that's 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:55.000 a valid feeling any other 00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:60.000 feelings annoyed good not good 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.000 but good any other feelings 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.000 yes I would have an easy time 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.000 just like closing cases like 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.000 if people are not participating 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.000 like I feel like you want to 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000 really bother me to be like 00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:14.000 when you're not doing your 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:15.000 homework you're not coming to 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.000 the appointment so how are you 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.000 going to come to work every day 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:23.000 but like I don't know it kind 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.000 of sounds weird to say but I 00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.000 feel like I would be not that 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.000 I'm going to be mean but I am 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:30.000 I would just be like it would 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.000 be a different thing for like 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.000 my clinical mental health so 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:35.000 you're kind of jumping to my 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.000 question number four which is 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.000 perfectly okay because I think 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.000 it is important to identify 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:42.000 alternative reasons for why 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.000 this might be happening 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:47.000 I mean you gave one I mean sort 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:48.000 of right it could just be 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.000 the context right there's an 00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:51.000 agency it requires us to 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.000 do these things and we're on 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.000 a timeline and if you can't 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.000 commit to that maybe closure 00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:57.000 is warranted right we're not 00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.000 the best service for you at 00:37:59.000 --> 00:37:60.000 this time in life so that 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.000 could be that could be one way 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.000 yeah what are the barriers are 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:05.000 you parents do you need to 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:06.000 watch your kids at this time do 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:07.000 I need to make an appointment 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.000 at a different time are you 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.000 so busy babysitting are you do 00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:12.000 you have a job because you're 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:13.000 trying to help with the house like 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.000 I'm gonna try to figure out 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:18.000 what how why because 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.000 generally if people are making 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.000 appointments and they're coming 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.000 to appointments and they don't 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:24.000 have their homework it's they're 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.000 at least showing that it's 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.000 somewhat important to them so 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.000 I'm going to want to know why 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:32.000 aren't we getting quite there 00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.000 yes yes yes so you guys kind of 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.000 jumped the gun on me but that's 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.000 totally okay because the one 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.000 piece I want you to think about 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.000 though is is it okay for you 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000 as a therapist to feel upset 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:48.000 by this sure so I want that 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.000 to kind of sink in that's what 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:51.000 I'm hoping in this presentation 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:52.000 is I want you to be aware 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:54.000 of those feelings because we 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.000 kind of pushed past them and 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:56.000 ignore them we're missing out 00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.000 on some some pieces that can 00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:60.000 help us with supervision case 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.000 conceptualization because then 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.000 like I do I do jump to is 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:06.000 there a sense in which this 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:07.000 would be okay what if it was a 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.000 single mother working two jobs 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.000 might I make some excuses for 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:13.000 how this works and maybe try to 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:14.000 re-adapt and figure out how do 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.000 we make this work that it's not 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.000 her fault right so these are 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:20.000 important things to think about 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.000 and some of those are rooted 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.000 and if I get stuck in they're not 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.000 committed I'm not even jumping 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:26.000 down here right so we need to 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.000 kind of push past them but also 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.000 accept that there might be a 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.000 lot we can gain from having 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.000 these initial initial values yeah 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:36.000 I may not push the blame on 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.000 the client I have a tendency to 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.000 internalize and so I might feel 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.000 like I'm in an inadequate 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.000 therapists that I'm not doing 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.000 my job and I think that might 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.000 be my initial reaction and 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:50.000 then maybe annoyance after 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:51.000 and so I think that that would 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:52.000 be important for me to like 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.000 say okay you're having this 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.000 I knows might test me 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.000 this my automatic response so 00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:60.000 what am I gonna do to to kind 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.000 of really figure out what's 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.000 going on so I just want to 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.000 highlight another level of that 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.000 but I think it's so valuable is 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.000 contrary to what the stereotype 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.000 may suggest counselling truly 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.000 is a two way street isn't it 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:14.000 yes the clients 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.000 are coming to us we're kind of 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.000 facilitating this movement and 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:20.000 change and addressing goals but 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.000 the clients are also creating 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.000 stuff for us intentionally or 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.000 unintentionally right like this 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.000 one suddenly finding myself 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.000 in a place where it's like is 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.000 it something I'm doing did I 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.000 not facilitate rapport well enough 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.000 like what have I done 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.000 that this is now the case 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.000 something for us to bring to 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.000 supervision something for us to 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.000 bring into personal counseling 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.000 right because that may or may 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.000 not have anything to do with 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.000 what's happening here yeah 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.000 what are you trying to avoid like 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.000 it might be do I need to back 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.000 up a little bit are we are we 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:48.000 discussing something that's 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.000 making you uncomfortable and 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.000 just kind of I guess look at it 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.000 from another barrier standpoint 00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:56.000 but more of are you trying to 00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.000 avoid something is there something 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.000 that we're doing right now 00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.000 we're talking about that's not 00:40:59.000 --> 00:40:61.000 working for you and I wonder 00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:04.000 would any of you this being the 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.000 case that you could actually 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:06.000 get the client to come into 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.000 the room would just highlight 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.000 this directly so I've noticed 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.000 the past three appointments 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.000 you've missed or canceled on 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:16.000 me or whatever I'm curious 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.000 what's what's happening in 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.000 your life right now or why did 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.000 those things happen yeah 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.000 a lot of head nods we're good okay 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:26.000 so I chose this face 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.000 intentionally because we had 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:30.000 a I remember this from class 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.000 the sparked a lot of value a 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:36.000 lot of value so the reason I 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.000 did it was also to add like 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.000 a face to the story as well 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:40.000 right since we're talking 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:43.000 about perceptions values we 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.000 have Mr. Flatter right so 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:48.000 client was very complimentary 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.000 talks about how much progress 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.000 he's making in therapy says 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:53.000 he feels much better after 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.000 each session and just coming 00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:57.000 helps him tremendously and 00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.000 life so kind of buttering you 00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:61.000 up as a clinician what are 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.000 some of the -- the feelings 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:05.000 they might experience as a 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:06.000 clinician I see a smile over 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.000 here a giant smile and -- 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:14.000 I would be concerned that everything is always a great 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:18.000 diagnostic criteria maybe right 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.000 like it's he the one 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:21.000 you're not the tool 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.000 right for him to feel better 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.000 so then I would be like okay 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.000 so what are we not doing so 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:28.000 that you don't like the whole 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:29.000 goal is that we don't have a job 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000 right they can do this on 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:35.000 their own for a lifetime or not just 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:36.000 I guess you said job like a 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.000 vocational context but even 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:39.000 in counseling why are you here 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.000 iff everything's fine I think 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.000 for me I'm instantaneously 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.000 going to think about okay I'm 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:51.000 not seeing any change you're 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:56.000 telling me that I'm awesome 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.000 but you're here to work on 00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:59.000 something and there's no change 00:42:59.000 --> 00:42:63.000 so I'm likely to 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.000 ask how he feels that this is 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.000 helped him because for me this 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:13.000 feels kind of -- manipulative 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.000 might this be a client who 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.000 ends up kind of a long term 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.000 caseload member because he's 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:21.000 great doesn't take a lot of 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.000 time we have good philosophical 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:26.000 conversations about things 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:27.000 are good and I need that 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.000 kind of relief session in 00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.000 my day see where I'm getting 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.000 with this right like some of 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:34.000 these feelings you may have 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.000 about like I was one of the 00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:36.000 better client my case that I 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:38.000 really like working with him 00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:41.000 is anything really happening 00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:42.000 we don't know right like it 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.000 could it could not be but we 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.000 need to be able to have that 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.000 conversation with our clients 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.000 any takers on how would we kind 00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.000 of say you know I'm wondering 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:55.000 if there's something going on 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:56.000 you know you come into these 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.000 therapy sessions hopefully 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:61.000 seeking something but you're 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.000 saying that everything is 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.000 the counseling sessions -- 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.000 it seems like there might 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.000 be something that you're 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:11.000 avoiding during our sessions 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:13.000 can you -- maybe elaborate a 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:15.000 little bit on that so we're 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.000 touching kind of this piece 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:18.000 we talked about earlier with 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.000 supervision right in seeking 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:21.000 with a clinical supervisor 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.000 hardly verbalize this in a 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.000 constructive way to pull at 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.000 the goal that I'm looking for and 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:29.000 also to create some insight 00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:30.000 to for this individual right 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.000 to make it a two way street 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.000 by pointing out something's 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.000 not right here I feel it and 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.000 because of my feelings I feel 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:39.000 like I need to address it and 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.000 I'm gonna pull you into this 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:41.000 in this collaborative way 00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.000 so this is what I'm exactly 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.000 what I'm looking for 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:48.000 tell me what's changed and how so 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.000 you know yeah what's changed 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.000 how so you know and that way 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.000 you know we're not just saying 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:54.000 things are great things are 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.000 wonderful but we're we're 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.000 opening the door for this 00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:60.000 person and inviting them to -- 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.000 discuss those changes and how 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:03.000 it has impacted you guys are all 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:05.000 about measurable outcomes this 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.000 is good I would asl tell me 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.000 what a bad day looks like for you 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:14.000 that be a good question so the 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.000 question -- not to question 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:17.000 the statement that she would 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:18.000 explore with the client is 00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.000 what is a bad day look like 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.000 for you and I can see that 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:22.000 coming from this place of you 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.000 know every time you come and 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.000 see me things are great you're 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:29.000 happy life is good do you 00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.000 have any bad days because I do 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:34.000 and so where is the what's 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.000 going on that's a good one 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.000 I would revisit the treatment plan 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:41.000 and look at their goals back to that 00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.000 measurable outcome okay so 00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:44.000 re-evaluate yeah it makes me 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:45.000 wonder what the treatment plan 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.000 would look like for this guy 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.000 in fact even asking if you 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:50.000 could stay this way for the 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.000 rest of your life is this is 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:55.000 this is this it like cuz 00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:56.000 you're here for change so if 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.000 this is good then why are we seeking change 00:45:58.000 --> 00:45:60.000 right how really I mean in 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.000 a nice way again if rapports 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:03.000 is built I haven't really seen 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.000 any progress you know we've 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.000 talked about this he said you 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:08.000 want to get here and yet from 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.000 my end maybe we have got here 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.000 they didn't know so could you 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.000 explain it to me but making 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.000 it again if rapports is built and 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.000 there's respect their being 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.000 able to be up front with him 00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:21.000 and true and I don't know less of the 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.000 questions more just like this 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000 is what I'm seeing what's up 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.000 because the goal is that we 00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:27.000 professionally should not be 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.000 like their friends neighbors 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.000 parents right like that's the 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.000 gift we can give that other 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:35.000 people in their lives can't 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:37.000 is this kind of objective 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:38.000 assessment that sometimes ends 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.000 up rooted in our own perception 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:41.000 and feeling about this person 00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.000 and the relationship that we 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.000 have with this person okay so 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.000 I'm gonna interfuse some more 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:49.000 difficult ones as we go so I 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:50.000 figured this one diversity 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:52.000 flashback is going to probably 00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.000 hit on some diversity class 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:57.000 issues so Miriam twenty seven 00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:59.000 year old Sephardic Jewish 00:46:59.000 --> 00:46:61.000 female counselor roots in 00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.000 Spain beginning her first job 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.000 after graduation experience 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:06.000 from her graduate level 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.000 internship will be conducting 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:09.000 intakes assessments individual 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:11.000 sessions her first client as 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:13.000 a Caucasian male reported for 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:15.000 depression and the coordinator 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.000 tells her that he has a shaved 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:18.000 head tattoo of a swastika 00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:20.000 on the back of his neck this 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:21.000 creates some interesting 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.000 feelings within Miriam and 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.000 she rearranges her office I 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:27.000 don't know if any of you have 00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:28.000 been there yet but I certainly 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.000 have rearranged my office on an 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:33.000 occasion not just because 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.000 of the client before just 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.000 general safety has an escape 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:37.000 route reviews agency safety 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:40.000 plan she reviews the history 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:43.000 which is great but finds that 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.000 father was a member of a white 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.000 supremacist group she feels 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:49.000 frightened and apprehensive but 00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.000 meets with the client anyway 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:53.000 and does not address any of 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.000 this issues with client we're 00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.000 looking at like intake right 00:47:59.000 --> 00:47:61.000 thoughts 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.000 if he's not comfortable 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.000 with her and clearly she's 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:05.000 not comfortable with him 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.000 the maybe yes there's 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:12.000 a better fit for him -- 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:13.000 but I think that I don't think 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:14.000 that she would she may not 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.000 be able to provide the kind 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:18.000 of support he needs if he's 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.000 uncomfortable with her and 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:23.000 vice versa I mean I just I mean 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:24.000 yeah it's a little bit of an 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:26.000 assumption though isn't it so 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.000 this is again the important 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:29.000 part of this exercise is 00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:31.000 it's not wrong to have your 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:33.000 assumptions your feelings all 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.000 of these initial values but 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:36.000 it should beg some questions 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.000 right about why am I feeling 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:39.000 this way what's really the case 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.000 what do I know right which is 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:42.000 why is it like it's a bit of an 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.000 assumption right I mean Miriam 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.000 has everything maybe that he 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:48.000 needs but the assumptions can 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.000 create the barriers in order 00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.000 for him to not or she for not 00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:54.000 to work with him either right 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:55.000 but I would say if we're doing our 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.000 job well we should be able 00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:58.000 to read that history report 00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:60.000 because that can only better 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:01.000 inform us to ask the right 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.000 questions to gather the right 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:05.000 information but it's requiring 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:06.000 that you've mastered a bit of 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:08.000 this self right and acceptance 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:11.000 of the self so I can push past 00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:12.000 that still have some things 00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.000 about safety because that's 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.000 good for client and for me but 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:17.000 to be able to really hone in on 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:18.000 so what's the important piece 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.000 I need to draw from this and 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:22.000 and with this how do I push 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.000 past that this makes sense so I 00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:24.000 think that's it I'm glad you 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:25.000 brought that up because that 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.000 often becomes that I don't want 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.000 I don't wanna be tainted well 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:33.000 sometimes being tainted could 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.000 be a helpful thing as long 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.000 as you can push past the the 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.000 barrier but it requires us to 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.000 be observant it requires us to 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.000 see these things and to have 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.000 these kind of suspicions right 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.000 clinical suspicions and how 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.000 are they use when we're in that 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.000 clinical relationship right 00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:50.000 and those are the things we 00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:51.000 need to be running through what 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.000 is the issue are these issues 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:55.000 what are the ramifications of 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000 bringing up these issues so I 00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.000 think we've hit on some major 00:49:59.000 --> 00:49:61.000 assumptions I think it's pretty 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:02.000 obvious there might be some 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.000 fear I mean that was addressed 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.000 already in the case that in 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.000 any other things you think 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.000 if you were in Miriam shoes 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.000 so there's a follow up she 00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:15.000 completes the intake and 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.000 completes the first busy day 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:18.000 meets with the same client 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.000 for treatment planning session 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:22.000 client returns for the third 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.000 session noting that the 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:26.000 client never fit in with his 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:29.000 family and notes the positive 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:31.000 influence of his girlfriend 00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:33.000 and how she has helped his 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:34.000 growth and understanding his 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.000 own personal values I forgot 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:38.000 to put that in there although 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:39.000 the client voices you seem a 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:41.000 little uncomfortable counselor 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:43.000 denies and continues to avoid 00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:45.000 discussion about past life 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.000 experience and current 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:49.000 conflicts and continues to say 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:50.000 I'm not sure how I can help 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.000 you often sounded irritated 00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.000 and hurried we're kind of in 00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:58.000 a dangerous zone aren't we yeah 00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:61.000 if the client voices you seem a uncomfortable 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:05.000 that's a problem or could be 00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.000 ripe opportunity to remedy the 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.000 situation but again we have 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:12.000 to be comfortable being able 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.000 to kind of address well the 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.000 elephant in the room right sure 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.000 and that may require by getting 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.000 the client buy in like okay you 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.000 know but are we willing to have 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:24.000 this difficult conversation 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:26.000 what would this look like 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:27.000 what I would add to that is 00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:29.000 whose responsibility is it and 00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:30.000 the therapeutic relationship 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.000 to bring these up not the 00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:34.000 client's responsibility they 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.000 can but it's not necessarily 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:38.000 his responsibility I was going 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.000 back to informed consent and 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.000 kind of like what everyone is 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:43.000 talking about like the elephant 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:46.000 in the room -- I feel like for 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.000 especially like person centered if 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.000 you're trying to be authentic 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:50.000 if you feel like you have 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.000 some preconceived notions you 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:53.000 should have a conversation with 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:55.000 the client right away because 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.000 part of -- the counseling 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.000 relationship is fostering 00:51:58.000 --> 00:51:60.000 growth and if you're going 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.000 to cause harm by increasing 00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:03.000 preconceived notions you should 00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:05.000 just pass them right away up 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:07.000 front -- to get out of out of 00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:08.000 the way to ensure that you're 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:10.000 not causing any harm later down 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:12.000 the road sure I don't know what 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.000 I'd do if this actually walked 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.000 into my door but as a general 00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:17.000 rule I usually always ask tell 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:18.000 me about your tattoos like no 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:21.000 matter what is image on the 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:23.000 body but I tell me the story 00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:25.000 I'm curious I just want to know 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:27.000 because if nothing else it may 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.000 not be this kind of level of of 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:31.000 kind of historical significance 00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.000 but it could be a lot about a 00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.000 person's -- view orientation 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:36.000 about life spirituality right 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:38.000 like pieces of their life 00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:39.000 especially because there's 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:40.000 cultures where tattooing is 00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:43.000 actually part of the ones being 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.000 one's life story right and even 00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.000 being able to voice something 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:48.000 like you know those tattoos 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000 and the significance of those 00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:51.000 statues is rather imposing 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.000 like it's I don't know I mean 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.000 have people told you that before 00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:57.000 is that is that a common thing 00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.000 you run into right and then 00:52:59.000 --> 00:52:60.000 you can kind of open the doors 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.000 from that perspective right and 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.000 this is where that counselor 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.000 genuineness comes into play 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:07.000 right being able to say this 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.000 is your time your space your 00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:11.000 story I'm curious I'd like to 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:12.000 know more and I realize some of 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.000 these things might be sensitive 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:16.000 and this is the perfect place 00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:17.000 to talk about that you know 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.000 because I am someone that may 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:21.000 be part of our change right 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.000 because again we have the role 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:25.000 of agenda setting right we 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:26.000 have the role of saying this 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:27.000 is how this relationship is 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:28.000 going to operate in terms of 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.000 us working together but also 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:31.000 as accomplishing these goals 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:32.000 that means we're gonna have 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:34.000 to talk about some things that 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:35.000 are uncomfortable so right 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:36.000 away the intake I'm always 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.000 addressing you know it's gonna 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.000 get worse before it gets better 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:41.000 like antibiotics right you 00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:43.000 feel like crap and then you 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:45.000 get better and then the second 00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:47.000 one is I can't always promise 00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:48.000 you leave my office feeling 00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:51.000 happy and then -- we're gonna 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.000 I'm gonna challenge you are 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.000 uncomfortable things and you 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:55.000 and I both have to be okay with 00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:57.000 that and if they they agreed 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:58.000 to that and I'm like great and 00:53:58.000 --> 00:53:59.000 how's things going to work out 00:53:59.000 --> 00:53:62.000 well but they don't agree then 00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:03.000 we have to have a talk about 00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.000 how do we change the rules how 00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:06.000 does this work for both of us 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:07.000 so that we can still accomplish 00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:10.000 goals but but save face for 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:11.000 maybe some of these things were 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:13.000 not ready to talk about yet 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.000 I'm just curious what you you say 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.000 if you had a client who said 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:18.000 you seem a little uncomfortable 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.000 and you were feeling 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:21.000 uncomfortable how would you how 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.000 would you like how often do you 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:26.000 actually like yeah no that is a 00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.000 good question and I'm gonna it 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:31.000 is sort of cop out initially by 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.000 saying it depends on how much 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:34.000 rapport I feel I have with 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:36.000 this particular individual if 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.000 this is like a third meeting 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.000 and I have somewhat trust that 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:41.000 I mean nothing's happened yet 00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:42.000 nothing's probably not gonna 00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.000 happen I might be able to say 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000 yeah there are some things that 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.000 are of interest to me that I 00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:49.000 think would be important for 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:51.000 us both to talk about are you 00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:52.000 willing to hear some of those 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.000 things are you willing to kind 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:57.000 of -- you know share a little 00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:59.000 bit about that and of course 00:54:59.000 --> 00:54:61.000 we can stop at any time -- but 00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:02.000 I want us both to be able to 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:04.000 feel comfortable -- because 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:06.000 if I can't then you can't and 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:07.000 this we're never gonna get 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:09.000 anywhere and so I think really 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:10.000 addressing it to be sure it 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:11.000 would be important and that's 00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:12.000 going to flow from however 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:14.000 you feel is most comfortable 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:16.000 has a person centered clinician 00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:17.000 that does get difficult right 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:18.000 because you're wrestling so 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:20.000 much with yourself right the 00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:21.000 observations the feelings 00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:23.000 everything in the moment but at 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:25.000 the same time I mean all of us 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:27.000 know how to kinda take a deep 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.000 breath -- I don't take a break 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000 there's a whole host of things 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:33.000 that you could get sort of 00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:34.000 fried right takes a deep breath 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.000 let's practice deep breathing 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.000 exercises together what can we 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:40.000 do to make this a safer space 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:41.000 I guess those are some things 00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:44.000 that kind of come to mind -- 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.000 but yeah it's a it's never 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:47.000 easy that's why these things 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:48.000 often go don't get discussed 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:49.000 they don't get brought to the 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:51.000 clinical supervisor because 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:52.000 oftentimes especially new 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:53.000 clinicians are sitting there 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.000 thinking this is a reflection 00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.000 of my poor counseling ability 00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.000 it's probably not the truth 00:55:58.000 --> 00:55:60.000 it's about real life and that 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.000 these things will fly like the 00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:03.000 Snicker commercials right like 00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:04.000 life comes at you hard eat a 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:07.000 Snickers right maybe you both 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.000 eat Snickers right like breaks 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:11.000 are important being able to 00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:13.000 take that space or incorporate 00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:15.000 the client into that space 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:16.000 so thankfully I think we've 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:17.000 addressed that already what 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:20.000 should she do seek supervision 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:21.000 focus on fear stereotypes and 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:24.000 bias discuss history values the 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.000 evolution listen to the story 00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.000 be curious about the story 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.000 and access and inquire about 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:30.000 the comfort level and the 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.000 therapeutic relationship 00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:33.000 don't be afraid to confront 00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:35.000 issues especially obvious 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:36.000 ones directly there are 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:38.000 some clinicians I've seen I 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:39.000 don't have the guts to do it 00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:40.000 but there are some who will 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.000 address race right away right 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:44.000 at the intake doesn't matter 00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:49.000 what came up right and they 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.000 it comes up right and so you 00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.000 know being able to address 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.000 what is it like this is 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.000 verbatim from a therapist I 00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:56.000 was listening to said what's 00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.000 it like to be a black male 00:56:58.000 --> 00:56:60.000 in a room with a white female 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:01.000 therapist just right off the 00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:03.000 bat I didn't get to witness 00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:04.000 the rest of it but that's what 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:06.000 I heard I was like who not 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:08.000 my style but it's certainly 00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:09.000 addressing right up front that 00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:11.000 there are some differences that 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:12.000 are going to come up and that's 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:15.000 okay but let's let's address 00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:17.000 it now why wait four five 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:18.000 sessions and potentially do 00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:20.000 more harm let's get it all out 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.000 informed consent everybody's 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:23.000 on the same page let's move 00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:25.000 forward again like game rules can 00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:26.000 we consent to the game rules 00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:29.000 what's the playbook so this 00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:30.000 one was a little bit different 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:31.000 but it's another one that comes 00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:33.000 up in supervision a lot or 00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:35.000 well doesn't come up because 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:38.000 we're we're not aware so fifty 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:40.000 eight year old single woman -- 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:42.000 holding a senior position at 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:44.000 an accounting company reports 00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:45.000 losing interest and work 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.000 lacks motivation and drive to 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.000 continue thinks about retiring 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.000 early explains it's a difficult 00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.000 decision because it will reduce 00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:55.000 benefits and she worries that 00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:57.000 this would impact the quality 00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.000 of life leisure everything 00:57:59.000 --> 00:57:62.000 after retirement Karen is the 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:05.000 counselor she meets with feel 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:06.000 she understands this client's 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.000 position because she herself 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:10.000 retired from a corporate 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:11.000 executive job to fulfill her 00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:13.000 dreams in helping others by 00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:16.000 becoming a therapist she knows 00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:17.000 she made the right decision 00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:19.000 and is living a more fulfilled 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:22.000 life at this time just right 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:26.000 there anything concerning 00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:28.000 first of all it doesn't even sound 00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.000 like they're both in like the 00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:32.000 it sounds like -- Carlotta may 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:34.000 not necessarily have a degree 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.000 that she can fall back on to 00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.000 work at a nonprofit with 00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:40.000 it sounds like she may have a 00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:42.000 different kind of -- being 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:43.000 in a different income 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:45.000 brackets all together so it's 00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:47.000 not really the same thing 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:48.000 I would focus on a different 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:49.000 spot but you hit it right on 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:50.000 the head though right is it's 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.000 like here's a clinician who's 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:54.000 become comfortable in her where 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.000 she's at right and suddenly 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:58.000 identifies and is so roped up 00:58:58.000 --> 00:58:60.000 in autonomy the world will work 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:01.000 for you just do it it'll be 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:02.000 better right it's not really 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:04.000 the most helpful counselor in 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.000 the world but it happens from 00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:07.000 time to time especially when it 00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:08.000 takes us by surprise you know 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:10.000 it's just I want to see you 00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:12.000 fulfill your dreams like I did 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:13.000 that's that's the danger right 00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.000 like I did the other piece that 00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:16.000 was going to ask a counselor 00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.000 Karen feels irritated and often 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:20.000 displays facial affects of 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:22.000 like why don't you just make 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.000 this change right like yeah 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.000 so that was the added layer 00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:27.000 that I'm like that's clearly 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.000 not appropriate so you know 00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:31.000 but anyway just to further the 00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:33.000 story last thought what happens 00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:35.000 if she was job and she doesn't 00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:36.000 have the drive or motivation to 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.000 continue like this that doesn't 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:40.000 work or is that in all aspects 00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:41.000 of it like what does that 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.000 mean because so we failed some 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:45.000 clinical diagnostic work right 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:47.000 to really identify where is 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.000 this lack of energy motivation 00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:51.000 is this rooted in depression 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:53.000 or is this rooted in a I think 00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:56.000 that Karen has the fact that 00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.000 she has gone through something 00:59:58.000 --> 00:59:60.000 similar could be a positive as 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:03.000 well -- because then she kind 01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:05.000 of gets it but if our goal 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:07.000 as counselors is to guide 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:09.000 the patient or the client in 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:11.000 figuring out what they want for 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:14.000 themselves then there shouldn't 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:16.000 be an issue and I would agree 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.000 with that right like I'd much 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:20.000 rather have Karen say hey I've 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:21.000 been through something she 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:22.000 wouldn't use these words in 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.000 session but like internally be 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:26.000 thinking I've been there let's 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:28.000 explore the ramifications the 01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:30.000 dangers to make sure this is 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:31.000 the goal that you really are 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:32.000 seeking towards that it's the 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:34.000 right fit for you I'd rather 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.000 see that than that it's going 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:39.000 to be fine I think you brought 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.000 up different brackets payment 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:42.000 right right I think that's 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.000 a really important point is 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:45.000 that Karen worked a corporate 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:48.000 executive job in her retirement 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.000 was like seven bagillion 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.000 dollars or something like 01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:52.000 that it's easy for her to 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:53.000 person of high socioeconomic 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.000 status to stay -- just do it 01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:56.000 you can follow your dreams 01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:59.000 whereas Carlotta er Carlotta yeah 01:00:59.000 --> 01:00:61.000 she might not have anywhere 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.000 like near the same benefits or money and 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:06.000 so then Karen's opposing her 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.000 own perception of kind of 01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:11.000 I guess Karen has a blind spot 01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:14.000 in isn't realizing that her -- 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.000 freedom and her privilege with 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:17.000 how much money she was making 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:19.000 it something that Carlotta might not have 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:20.000 and I'll end it by saying that 01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:22.000 this this specific example 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:24.000 was just more about that kind 01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.000 of how natural those blind 01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:27.000 spots might be and hopefully 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:28.000 Karen has enough experience 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:30.000 after session realize I wonder 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.000 if I gave off some sort of 01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:34.000 impression right because now 01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:35.000 I'm feeling really concerned 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:36.000 I want to see -- succeed but 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:38.000 like probably enter back into 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:40.000 session and kind of address 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.000 this and be like not sure how 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:43.000 you left feeling the office 01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.000 like you know was essentially 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.000 was a too strong too much you 01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:48.000 kind of measure that out and 01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.000 then re-hash and be like what 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:51.000 is the most appropriate thing 01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:54.000 for her so not something to 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:55.000 spend a lot of time on but I 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:56.000 did want to focus on how easy 01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:58.000 those things can sneak up on 01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:59.000 us right especially when yeah 01:01:59.000 --> 01:01:60.000 I've been there you'll be fine 01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:02.000 right is that fits with the 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.000 counseling desire but it's it's 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:06.000 not always the most helpful 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:08.000 thing to give our clients right 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:09.000 let's hop into some of the more 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:12.000 the more like tabooish topics 01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.000 picture to boot right just a 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:17.000 real life case study working in 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:19.000 a private mental health clinic 01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:22.000 who contracts with the OHP 01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:23.000 you receive a fourteen 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:24.000 year old female who 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:27.000 identifies as non binary and 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:29.000 reports wearing chest bindings 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:30.000 reports limited support at 01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:32.000 home and is seeking counseling 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.000 with mother's support for 01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:37.000 anxiety client informs you has a 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.000 boyfriend and both are sexually 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.000 active clarifies that they are 01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:42.000 using condoms and practicing 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.000 safe sex I realize I messed 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.000 up with my -- my pronouns so I 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:52.000 will work on that taboo topic 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:54.000 just opened my own stuff I have 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:57.000 to work on so anyway -- what do 01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:59.000 you think what are your reactions with 01:02:59.000 --> 01:02:60.000 this client is sitting in front 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:03.000 what is like the age in Oregon 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.000 because that was like 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:07.000 fourteen ok fourteen so 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.000 according to Oregon health 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:12.000 authority fourteen as a minor 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:13.000 is in charge of their own 01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.000 mental health records but 01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:16.000 that does not mean parental 01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:19.000 involvement is done so they 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:20.000 have some vague wording 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:21.000 about how parents need to be 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.000 incorporated in therapy but 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:25.000 they don't tell you how that 01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:26.000 works except for termination 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:28.000 and like the intake right but 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:29.000 somewhere in there they say 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:31.000 parental updates or the use 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:33.000 some language but they don't 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:35.000 give you the here's how you do 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:38.000 it so talk to your supervisor 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:39.000 things like that yeah I have a 01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:41.000 daughter she's almost fourteen 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:45.000 and -- I would be concerned 01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:47.000 that she may not I would I 01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:49.000 would think looking at my own 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:50.000 daughter and be hard to be 01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.000 not to be thinking about my 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.000 own daughter thinking is she 01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:54.000 emotionally open enough to be 01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:56.000 doing this to you know what 01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:57.000 what what could be happening 01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:59.000 to her and her development you 01:03:59.000 --> 01:03:61.000 know as far as being engaged 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:05.000 in sexual acts -- this young -- 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.000 so that that would be me 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:09.000 and I would like to say I share in 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:10.000 some of those things and they 01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:12.000 fuel kind of the conversations 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:13.000 I than have right because they 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.000 were talking about like what 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:17.000 is safe sex what does that 01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:18.000 mean what does that look like 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:20.000 what is consent look like what 01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:21.000 is that relationship who were 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:24.000 you with how do you find this 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.000 relationship is it safe does it 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:30.000 feel at loving I that's a blow 01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:31.000 off word I suppose we could argue 01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:32.000 with but you know I mean like 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:34.000 all of those pieces are things 01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:35.000 that hopefully are coming up 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:37.000 right because we're not sure 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:38.000 how much developmentally the 01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:39.000 fourteen year old might be 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:40.000 assessing for all these things 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:42.000 right hormones are running 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:44.000 puberty's engaged all sorts 01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:45.000 of things are running around 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.000 right not just to mention we 01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:48.000 can also go into like sexual 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.000 identity gender identity all 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:51.000 those pieces as well right 01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.000 that could affect relationships 01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:55.000 with others in this case to 01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:57.000 so and not to mention just 01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:59.000 the conversation about if I'm 01:04:59.000 --> 01:04:60.000 worried about your safety or 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.000 I feel some significant bad 01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:04.000 or harm can come from these 01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:05.000 things we're gonna be pulling 01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:07.000 mom into this session right 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:08.000 like just reminders about 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.000 some of these aspects of I'm 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:11.000 mostly concerned about your 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.000 safety and that usually works 01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:14.000 out pretty well because the 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.000 clients often concerned about 01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:17.000 their well being as well so 01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:19.000 it's a good conversation that 01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:20.000 goes mostly well most of the 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:23.000 time Tanya I don't know if 01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:24.000 it's just the wording that 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:26.000 for me the thought that comes 01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:29.000 to my mind it says that -- 01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:30.000 client informs you that she has a 01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.000 boyfriend they're both sexually active 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:37.000 then it says she clarifies that they are using condoms 01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:40.000 so that begs the question are they in it 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:42.000 together or is it them together 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:44.000 and then also like with other 01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:47.000 polyamorous relationship yeah 01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:49.000 he's already seeing that she's 01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:51.000 non binary or that they're non 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:54.000 binary I'm sorry and that -- 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.000 yeah this is how they identify 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:57.000 I mean I'm not saying that 01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:58.000 that's synonymous with one 01:05:58.000 --> 01:05:61.000 another but I mean they might 01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:03.000 have multiple ideals of how 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.000 they identify so if we don't 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.000 know that aspect as well if 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:08.000 they identify as polyamorous 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:11.000 or monogamous who's to say that 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:13.000 that doesn't mean they as a 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:16.000 couple verses they as them with 01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:18.000 other partners as well yeah no 01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:20.000 totally and the implications 01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:22.000 that come from safety around 01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:23.000 that an awareness right just 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:26.000 opening up what could be issues 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:28.000 good that's again see how these 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:30.000 feelings inside us can prompt 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:32.000 some really good discussions 01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:33.000 not that we place on them but 01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:35.000 we invite that conversation 01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:37.000 about are we aware of all of 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:38.000 the pieces that are involved 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.000 in this so client continues 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:43.000 to inform you that she and her 01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:44.000 boyfriend have experimented 01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:46.000 with several forms of sex 01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:47.000 reports that it happens often 01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:49.000 and they sneak away to secluded 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:51.000 public places to find alone time 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:52.000 reports never having felt 01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:54.000 coerced or forced but has had 01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:57.000 some bad experiences later 01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:58.000 appointment client appears 01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:62.000 anxious tearful I missed my 01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:04.000 period reports giving in to 01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:06.000 condom less sex client describes 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:07.000 consent and love for this 01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:09.000 person my research studies 01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:11.000 way back first term was on -- 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:12.000 sexual assault within the deaf 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.000 community because it's very 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:16.000 very high because of lack of 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:19.000 education and -- mostly the 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:21.000 understanding of what those 01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:24.000 words mean is missing -- and 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:25.000 so when she says giving in 01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:27.000 I would hone on that what 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:28.000 does giving and what does that 01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:29.000 mean what does that look like 01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.000 for you -- consent what does 01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:32.000 that look like what does that 01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:34.000 mean because consent for her 01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:37.000 for them it could be 01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:43.000 in the mood but they talk to 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:45.000 me about it and said that they 01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.000 would -- buy me something and 01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:51.000 so I figured well if I want 01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:52.000 that you know like not fully 01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:54.000 understanding what what it is 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.000 so treatment planning goals 01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:57.000 are like exponential here 01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:58.000 right we're talking about 01:07:58.000 --> 01:07:59.000 relationships what does that 01:07:59.000 --> 01:07:62.000 mean your own identification 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:03.000 of sexuality what that means 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:05.000 to to give it to receive it 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.000 to you know who's in control 01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:09.000 of that like all these kinds 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:10.000 of pieces which are important 01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:11.000 things for all of us to talk 01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:15.000 about Tanya I fell like it also brings the 01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:16.000 question what would what was 01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:18.000 accomplished in the discussion 01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:19.000 from the last slide about what 01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:21.000 is consent look like what is 01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.000 loving what is yes all of that 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:26.000 stuff that maybe the client 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:29.000 didn't take away which then 01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:31.000 led to this or peer pressure 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:33.000 in general so I would wonder 01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:34.000 if that conversation the 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:36.000 pending that it was really not 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:39.000 hypothetical looks like yes no 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:40.000 and those are good things and 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:41.000 those are conversations that 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:42.000 did take place right talking 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:45.000 about that's that's yours right 01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:46.000 like you decide all of those 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:48.000 pieces so again yeah I might be 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:49.000 thinking big right because all 01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:50.000 of these things are counseling 01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:53.000 topics to be addressed so I 01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:54.000 think this is this is kind of 01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:57.000 the wrap up if you will return 01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:60.000 several sessions later in tears 01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:02.000 convinced mother to drive from 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:04.000 a different county on a lunch 01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:06.000 break to come to counseling 01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:07.000 reported boyfriend from breaking 01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:08.000 up after a brief conversation 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:10.000 about taking a break from 01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:11.000 sexual activity and other 01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:12.000 things and that boyfriend is 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:14.000 now unofficially dating best 01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:16.000 friend after he closed the 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.000 relationship rumors passing 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:19.000 that they're now romantically 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:21.000 involved so just to add on 01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:23.000 layers of I mean sexuality 01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:24.000 as a whole right not just the 01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:26.000 act but also the relationship 01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:28.000 dynamics right and for fourteen 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.000 years old I don't think I've 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:31.000 dealt with this much and 01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:32.000 I'm thirty something years 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.000 old and my own relationships 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:35.000 right like this is a lot to 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:38.000 process their so again I mean 01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:39.000 these are a lot of topics that 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:40.000 could have been avoided not 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.000 discussed or even or feeling 01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:44.000 of like I don't know what to 01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:46.000 do right and if anything you 01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:47.000 call your supervisor on the 01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:49.000 spot are you available I'm 01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:50.000 not sure I'm handling this 01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:52.000 well let's process through all 01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:53.000 this together right because 01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.000 these are rough conversations 01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:56.000 a lot of these things there 01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:58.000 are things that we had even 01:09:58.000 --> 01:09:60.000 rope a parent in and have 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.000 conversations with this as well 01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:02.000 right like there's a lot of 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:04.000 loaded areas in which sometimes 01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:05.000 you are the only source of 01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:06.000 support and you were the 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.000 one who is responsible for 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:09.000 having these conversations 01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:11.000 facilitating these kinds of 01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:13.000 communications especially 01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:14.000 because you have to be careful 01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:15.000 about what you're writing in 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:17.000 your notes as well because 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:18.000 parents still have the right 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:19.000 to see the notes and then on 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:21.000 top of that is a new concept 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:22.000 I never really thought about 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.000 before but if it's a note 01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:25.000 that's justifying your service 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:27.000 for insurance how much are we 01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:28.000 sharing with people who don't 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:30.000 need to know this information 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:33.000 justify is the service related 01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:34.000 to the billing code and is 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:36.000 it justified so all sorts of 01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:38.000 things to think about as you 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:39.000 begin processing I mean really 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:41.000 serious detailed stuff with 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:44.000 clients lives this one might 01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:46.000 be a little more heated and 01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:47.000 I want to get into but this 01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:48.000 was one that was told to me 01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:49.000 by another a clinician who 01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:51.000 worked a lot with mandated -- 01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.000 clients from the court system 01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:54.000 by child protective services 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:56.000 due to report in which it 01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:58.000 was accused he was molesting 01:10:58.000 --> 01:10:61.000 his daughter while drunk and 01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:03.000 actually states verbatim she's 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:07.000 my daughter I'll do what I want 01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:09.000 so just let this one just kind 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:11.000 of mull over in your minds but 01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:13.000 as you think about like hard 01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:15.000 topics to address right I mean 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:16.000 I don't think again I don't 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:17.000 think we really have to come 01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:19.000 up with a list of reasons for 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:21.000 why this would make us boil it 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.000 would make me boil like this 01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:25.000 I'll be open about that I would 01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:26.000 probably be at a point where I 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:28.000 would probably let the comment 01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:30.000 go if it's like an intake or 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:31.000 something right because I don't 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:34.000 know I don't know what's coming 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:35.000 because he might be just as 01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:37.000 livid as I am at this point 01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:39.000 right so I'm gonna try and 01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:41.000 keep things low I'm gonna focus 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:42.000 on empathy and unconditional 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:44.000 positive regard although right 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:46.000 I don't think I can pull an 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:48.000 unconditional positive regard 01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:49.000 on that right and this leads 01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:51.000 to another it kind of topic of 01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:53.000 conversation about we are not 01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:56.000 always supporting the value of 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.000 a client right and we see this 01:11:58.000 --> 01:11:59.000 like motivational interviewing 01:11:59.000 --> 01:11:60.000 like smoking for instance 01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.000 right smoking cessation the 01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:03.000 whole point of motivational 01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:06.000 interviewing is kind of slowly 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.000 roll that client to a different 01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:11.000 value outcome right that's 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:13.000 obviously where I'd be leaning 01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:14.000 towards that this model but 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:15.000 into in terms of what I would 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:17.000 say to that there's a part of 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:18.000 me that thinks is this kind 01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:20.000 of a case conceptualization 01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:21.000 piece that could be of benefit 01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:23.000 to me right as I'm kind of 01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:24.000 pondering what I would actually 01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:26.000 do and thinking about you 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.000 know that's such a harsh severe 01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:30.000 comment to make statement 01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.000 to make and thinking about what 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:33.000 is it like what is control play 01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:35.000 piece in your life right like 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:36.000 again I have to think about how I 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.000 would implement that but here's 01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:39.000 a case conceptualization right 01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:41.000 here someone who obviously 01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:43.000 asserts authority control 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:45.000 might even be related to a 01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.000 personality subset of criteria 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.000 right from a particular cluster 01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.000 so I mean again like so even 01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:52.000 though we have these feelings 01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:53.000 right these can kind of tie 01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:55.000 back down to like okay there's 01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:56.000 something to do with this 01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:58.000 one as much as it hurts there 01:12:58.000 --> 01:12:59.000 is that piece inside me that 01:12:59.000 --> 01:12:60.000 keeps saying you know always 01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:02.000 be curious well tell me your 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:03.000 side of the story what is that 01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:04.000 that happened here what do you 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:06.000 believe in my experience thus 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:08.000 far there's been no one that 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:11.000 I've turned away or have sought 01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:14.000 supervision about am I not able 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:16.000 or push to push past my own 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:18.000 stuff that I'm going to do harm 01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:20.000 to this client I've known how 01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:22.000 to -- you know I'm resource and 01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:23.000 given the tools the techniques 01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:24.000 and then I deal with my personal 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.000 stuff with my own therapist 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:27.000 right like and so I would 01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:29.000 say I think it's I think it's 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:31.000 possible but I'm not denying 01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:32.000 that there isn't a case out 01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:34.000 there that one day I won't be 01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:37.000 able to address I don't know 01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:38.000 so I agree with you in that 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:39.000 sense sometimes we won't know 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:41.000 till we get there which screams 01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:43.000 all the more I need to get some 01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:44.000 supervision because now it's 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:46.000 happened and I need to either 01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:48.000 repair some damage that's 01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:50.000 been done or get some advice 01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:52.000 and direction for how do I do 01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:54.000 something differently next time 01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:56.000 so again I know we're hitting 01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:59.000 some just brief topics and I 01:13:59.000 --> 01:13:61.000 hope so far it's been helpful 01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:03.000 so I had a whole lot in all 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.000 of these I feel like could be 01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:08.000 a full lecture like sexuality 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:10.000 that issues of spirituality 01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:12.000 so and just kind of scratching 01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:15.000 the surface -- but for sure 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:17.000 I hope you continue to kind 01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:18.000 of get that information so 01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.000 I'm pulling from the text 01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:22.000 but it's called integrating 01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.000 spirituality and religion into 01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:27.000 counseling and it's by a two 01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:28.000 pretty famous individuals who 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:30.000 do a lot of research and this 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.000 particular topic Cashwell & Young 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:33.000 and I thought they kind 01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:36.000 of encapsulated the importance 01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:38.000 of spirituality in counseling 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:40.000 in our spirituality in the 01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:43.000 counseling context spirituality 01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:44.000 is the universal human 01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:46.000 capacity to experience self- 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:48.000 transcendence and awareness of 01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:50.000 sacred immanence with resulting 01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:53.000 increases in greater self-other 01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:55.000 compassion and love 01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:57.000 compassion and love what do you think 01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:62.000 is that well stated or not cool 01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:03.000 psychospiritual development 01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:05.000 involves an increased capacity 01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:07.000 for compassion for others 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.000 and self to experience and 01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:12.000 accept more fully one's own 01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:14.000 pain and suffering and the 01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.000 pain and suffering of others 01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:17.000 resulting in the transformation 01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.000 of that suffering into 01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:21.000 compassion as one becomes 01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:26.000 fully awake does this sound 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:30.000 like counselor language 01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:33.000 in fact what counseling theory 01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:35.000 seems to be rooted and this 01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:38.000 particular language person 01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:41.000 centered and existentialism 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:43.000 exactly so that's kind of a 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:45.000 piece I think is so important 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.000 and -- I think I mention it in another 01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:49.000 slide -- they review the 01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:50.000 history of spirituality and 01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:52.000 it was kind of a no no even 01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:54.000 though we had Young and some 01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:55.000 of the well Freud himself 01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.000 to some degree incorporated 01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:58.000 spirituality and not in the 01:15:58.000 --> 01:15:60.000 same context as we'll be 01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000 discussing it -- but at the 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:04.000 same time -- although they 01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:06.000 were present it was really 01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:07.000 truly it's about a taboo 01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:09.000 topic in counseling it was not 01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:12.000 something that was discussed 01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:13.000 and the reason I find this 01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:15.000 to be so important -- for us 01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.000 as counselors is you'll also 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:20.000 find clinicians especially 01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.000 unlicensed clinicians who 01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:25.000 kind of -- ride the fence if 01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:26.000 that makes sense so they do 01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:29.000 like a pastoral approach and 01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:31.000 will sometimes be pastors 01:16:31.000 --> 01:16:34.000 but are also counselors and 01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:37.000 so there's a weird -- I say 01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:38.000 weird because I see a very 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:41.000 clear separation but I'm not 01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:45.000 sure some of our clinicians 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:47.000 counseling programs always 01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:49.000 see the separation even ones 01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.000 who end up licensed who graduate 01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:52.000 from other universities where 01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:55.000 it's really focused on -- and I 01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:56.000 think it is important for us as 01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:58.000 clinicians have a fine line of 01:16:58.000 --> 01:16:60.000 what is our role because in the 01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:02.000 DSM there is a z code 01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:04.000 that I believe is called 01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:06.000 exploring spiritual identity 01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:07.000 something like that so there 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:10.000 is a non billable code that 01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:11.000 the DSM says is an appropriate 01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:14.000 topic of conversation about 01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:15.000 finding one's spiritual 01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:18.000 identity right so on that on 01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:21.000 that note I hope I can kind of 01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:23.000 define what that line is that 01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:24.000 I'm talking about where it is 01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:26.000 our role and somebody else's 01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:29.000 job again such as clergy here 01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:30.000 or whatever that is and how do 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:31.000 we work together as a counseling 01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:34.000 team I and on top of that just 01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:36.000 in general really trying to 01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:38.000 highlight what spiritual issues 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:43.000 look like in the context of -- 01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:44.000 of the daily staff that clients 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:46.000 bring to us if that makes sense 01:17:46.000 --> 01:17:48.000 so yeah wasn't an appropriate 01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:49.000 topic before but around the 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:51.000 seventies as one research kind 01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:53.000 of got to get kicked in and 01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:55.000 like spirituality became a 01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:56.000 big thing which does sort of 01:17:56.000 --> 01:17:57.000 make sense if you think about 01:17:57.000 --> 01:17:59.000 Woodstock and everything 01:17:59.000 --> 01:17:60.000 after that I suppose a lot of 01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:03.000 existentialism so people define 01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:05.000 themselves within culture 01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:06.000 and that includes things 01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:08.000 like spirituality but also 01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:09.000 things like language how we 01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:11.000 communicate family dynamics all 01:18:11.000 --> 01:18:14.000 of that but even even religion 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:15.000 often dictates all those other 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.000 pieces to so if we're going to like 01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:20.000 prioritize the players religion 01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:21.000 spirituality can sometimes 01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:23.000 be kind of a pivotal player 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:24.000 and a lot of strings like a 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:25.000 puppet master right that are 01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:27.000 attached to other things in 01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:28.000 life and then there was a two 01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:30.000 thousand nine article in which 01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:32.000 psychologists in general more 01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:33.000 often than not a reluctant to 01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:36.000 talk about this topic not just 01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:37.000 for their clients but also 01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:39.000 with their colleagues which to 01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:41.000 me implies supervision which 01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:42.000 sounds a little dangerous to 01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:44.000 me but at the same time it 01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:45.000 also makes me feel like they've 01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:48.000 just cut this piece out of the 01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:50.000 question and so we're removing 01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:53.000 a section of a person's life 01:18:53.000 --> 01:18:54.000 and either intentionally or 01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:55.000 unintentionally saying it's 01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:57.000 not important that's why I like 01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:58.000 this topic a lot as I feel like 01:18:58.000 --> 01:18:60.000 we still have that stigma in 01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:02.000 this field there is a lot of 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:03.000 push for there's nothing we 01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:04.000 can do for that or it's just 01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:05.000 it's not important because we 01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:07.000 will address all the behavioral 01:19:07.000 --> 01:19:08.000 activities and we don't even 01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:10.000 need to talk about those things 01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:12.000 but yet meaning and purpose 01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:13.000 is often rooted in these kinds 01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:14.000 of things right what is the 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:16.000 meaning and purpose of life 01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:19.000 to not even discuss it or not even 01:19:19.000 --> 01:19:20.000 on intakes to have at least a 01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:22.000 line that says like religious 01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:23.000 or spiritual affiliation or 01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:25.000 identity I mean that right 01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:27.000 there already sets the tone of 01:19:27.000 --> 01:19:28.000 like I guess I'm not talking 01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:29.000 about that for someone like me 01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:31.000 who that's important in my life 01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:32.000 I just wouldn't even bother 01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:33.000 to bring it up right but if 01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:35.000 there's at least that one liner 01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:37.000 on the intake I'm like okay so 01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:38.000 this person's willing to kind 01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:40.000 of explore this side of things 01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:42.000 with me I'm not asking them 01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:43.000 to be my spiritual director 01:19:43.000 --> 01:19:45.000 by any means but they can kind 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:47.000 of help me determine where did 01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:49.000 these values line up again that 01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:50.000 congruence right which I feel 01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:52.000 especially as a person centered 01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:54.000 clinician is the whole goal how do we 01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:56.000 order our lives so that things 01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:57.000 line up for appropriate action 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.000 and behavior that fits my sense 01:19:59.000 --> 01:19:63.000 of reality right and then again 01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:04.000 I don't see them as separate 01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:06.000 things but rather often have 01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:08.000 the what is the logic line 01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:10.000 the golden thread the kind of 01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:11.000 goes through everything else 01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:14.000 that's experience in life when 01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:15.000 I added this little piece in 01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:17.000 here seventy three percent 01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:18.000 of therapists reported this 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.000 topic as important but did 01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:23.000 not believe that they possess 01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:25.000 adequate training or competence 01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:26.000 to be able to address it 01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:28.000 with clients and also with 01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:32.000 themselves so -- and I think 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:33.000 that was just mental health 01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:36.000 like ACA therapists in general 01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:38.000 to see what that would 01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:39.000 look like across different 01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:40.000 specializations but if we just 01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:42.000 use that as a whole that's 01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:43.000 a pretty significant number 01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:45.000 of clinicians who feel that 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:46.000 I don't know what to do even 01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:47.000 though clients are gonna bring 01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:50.000 it up but we'll just ignore it 01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:52.000 sweep it under the rug right 01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:53.000 so believe it or not there 01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:55.000 is a organization that kind 01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:57.000 of governance and it is the 01:20:57.000 --> 01:20:58.000 I don't know how they pronounce 01:20:58.000 --> 01:20:60.000 it but ASERVIC I guess is 01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:01.000 how I would say it but it's 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:03.000 the association for spiritual 01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:05.000 ethical and religious values in 01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:07.000 counseling surprising news to me 01:21:07.000 --> 01:21:08.000 that it started in the fifties 01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:10.000 with a Catholic therapist who 01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:12.000 was trying to figure out how do 01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:14.000 we have honor the perspective 01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:16.000 of our cultural members who 01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:17.000 are seeking counseling and 01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:18.000 how do we train clinicians 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:20.000 to understand if you will the 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.000 anthropology of Catholics so 01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:25.000 that they can do culturally 01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:28.000 based multicultural counseling to 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:30.000 support them anyway they 01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:32.000 divide into several different 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:33.000 categories and then they have a 01:21:33.000 --> 01:21:35.000 list of particular competencies 01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:37.000 underneath everything from 01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:39.000 world view culture self 01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:40.000 awareness human spiritual 01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:42.000 development communication 01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:43.000 assessment diagnosis and 01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:45.000 treatment and I think these two 01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:47.000 are kind of important 01:21:47.000 --> 01:21:50.000 for us to focus on because 01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:51.000 I mean what happens when the 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:55.000 client rights Muslim Buddhist 01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:58.000 Catholic nondenominational 01:21:58.000 --> 01:21:60.000 Jedi because that's a 01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:03.000 legitimate thing now -- I 01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:04.000 mean what do we do with that 01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:05.000 what does that tell us if 01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:06.000 you were to look at like the 01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:08.000 definition of spirituality and 01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:10.000 the definition of religion how 01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:11.000 many of you would say those 01:22:11.000 --> 01:22:13.000 two are separate entities 01:22:13.000 --> 01:22:16.000 just by raise of hands the 01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:22.000 definition of those two words 01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:25.000 okay yeah but how many of you 01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:27.000 believe that it would be 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:28.000 like in some sense they're 01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.000 synonymous or one is the other 01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:32.000 is present so let me define it 01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:34.000 in the context that at least 01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:36.000 Cashwell & Young do and 01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:38.000 what they say is spirituality 01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:39.000 is kind of the the broader 01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:41.000 sense of understanding of 01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.000 some sort of external reality 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:45.000 existentialism it's like that 01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:46.000 religion then is the kind of 01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:49.000 socially constructed norm in 01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:50.000 which cultural groups agree 01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:53.000 upon this is how we understand 01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:55.000 that spirituality and then 01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:57.000 also within that too is the 01:22:57.000 --> 01:22:58.000 spirituality of how religion 01:22:58.000 --> 01:22:61.000 is expressed right so I'm in 01:23:01.000 --> 01:23:02.000 the Catholic tradition for 01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:03.000 instance you have many forms 01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:06.000 of spirituality that are based 01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:07.000 in some of the saints who 01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:08.000 came up with a way of living 01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:09.000 out their way of life they're 01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:11.000 Catholic ideals right same 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:13.000 with any particular religion 01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:14.000 I would imagine right you 01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:15.000 often have different sex or 01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:17.000 different rabbis who have 01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:19.000 different houses in the Muslim 01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:20.000 tradition there's the different 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:24.000 that present a different way of 01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:25.000 looking at the same piece of 01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:27.000 text so those are all things 01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:29.000 that we need to kind of get 01:23:29.000 --> 01:23:30.000 to know about how that impacts 01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:32.000 our client on the day to day 01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:35.000 basis right and sometimes it 01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:36.000 won't sometimes it'll be like 01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:38.000 yeah I go on Sunday and I'm 01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:40.000 good let's talk about the rest 01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:42.000 of the stuff in my life but 01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:43.000 then they'll be someone else 01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:44.000 who comes in and says yeah you 01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:45.000 know I've really been praying 01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:48.000 about do we give this -- you 01:23:48.000 --> 01:23:51.000 know donation to this thing 01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:52.000 and I don't know I don't know 01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:53.000 if it's a part of our family 01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:54.000 entity what we do and what's 01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:55.000 god's will in this right 01:23:55.000 --> 01:23:57.000 can become very complicating 01:23:57.000 --> 01:23:59.000 can become a barrier to action 01:23:59.000 --> 01:23:60.000 that we can help kind of 01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:03.000 assist with so I think 01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:04.000 communications barriers can 01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:07.000 be a big issue in this topic 01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:09.000 partly because discomfort I 01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:10.000 mean how many of you in here 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:13.000 would say I am totally down 01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:15.000 on board for having religious 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:17.000 dialogue with my clients in a 01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:22.000 session so willing down able 01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:27.000 competent so the reason 01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:28.000 I ask that question as we talk 01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:31.000 about well depends on like the 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:32.000 the religion or the spiritual 01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:34.000 contacts right but but I'm the 01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:36.000 first one to say when a client 01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:38.000 identifies as Christian like 01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:40.000 that's no help to me because 01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:42.000 we have so much working so 01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:44.000 many different perspectives 01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:46.000 and sometimes I often poll the 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.000 audience to and say so how many 01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:49.000 of us would agree that there 01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:50.000 was a person a human person 01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:52.000 who walked the earth his name 01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:53.000 is Jesus was born of Mary 01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:55.000 and Joseph that kind of thing 01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:57.000 a lot more hands usually go 01:24:57.000 --> 01:24:59.000 okay there's enough research 01:24:59.000 --> 01:24:60.000 support but then when I asked 01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:01.000 the question -- but what 01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:03.000 does it mean to be Christ the 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.000 savior the action of that and 01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:08.000 how that impacts my life then 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:09.000 we get like thirty different 01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:11.000 shades right of what that means 01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:13.000 including the definition of 01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:15.000 the word saved itself right 01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:17.000 and so how one person lives 01:25:17.000 --> 01:25:20.000 if the goal is to be saved 01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:21.000 looks very different for same 01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:22.000 people who will use the same 01:25:22.000 --> 01:25:24.000 contacts right Christian so 01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:25.000 those are important things 01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:26.000 to think about when you're 01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:28.000 communicating with your client 01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:30.000 deeper to understand what are 01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:32.000 the particulars I would say 01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:34.000 it's important to communicate 01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:36.000 openness and that's not just 01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:37.000 for spirituality but think 01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:39.000 about even financial issues 01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:41.000 political issues you have to 01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:42.000 know yourself well if you can 01:25:42.000 --> 01:25:44.000 understand that but what about 01:25:44.000 --> 01:25:47.000 an individual who is basing -- 01:25:47.000 --> 01:25:49.000 political beliefs off of how 01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:51.000 they were raised the religion 01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:52.000 but is not fitting for them 01:25:52.000 --> 01:25:53.000 anymore right you get a teaser 01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:56.000 all those values so this person 01:25:56.000 --> 01:25:58.000 can really determine nope this 01:25:58.000 --> 01:25:60.000 voting is authentically me 01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:02.000 like making this decision is 01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:03.000 what I'm looking for in life 01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:04.000 so those are important things 01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:06.000 to think about how many have 01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:07.000 you been asked that question 01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:10.000 by your into internships or 01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:12.000 practicum clients no but people 01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:14.000 but specifically clients have 01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:15.000 actually asked you I would 01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:17.000 say I've had it happen quite 01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:19.000 a bit where individuals even 01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:21.000 even outside of like a referral 01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:22.000 source that I'm familiar with 01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:23.000 or something like she ask me 01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:25.000 like why I was really hoping 01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:26.000 I can meet with a Christian 01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:28.000 therapist like and am curious 01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:30.000 like do you'll do you identify 01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:32.000 as a Christian right and then 01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:34.000 I have to kind of hone in on 01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:35.000 you know why what about the 01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:37.000 Christianity is important for 01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:39.000 on why is it important that 01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:41.000 you feel I am Christians so I 01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:42.000 try to kind of round aboutly 01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:43.000 hit at what are all these 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:45.000 pieces because ultimately what 01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:46.000 I'm trying to get at is do you 01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:49.000 really need me to be Christian 01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:50.000 help you work through these 01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:51.000 issues and if we can get to the 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.000 conclusion of no then first 01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:54.000 of all I don't have to self 01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:56.000 disclosure but second of all 01:26:58.000 --> 01:26:59.000 does it the work that we're 01:26:59.000 --> 01:26:61.000 gonna be doing has no grounding 01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:03.000 and what my understanding is 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.000 except for if they want someone 01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:08.000 who is competent right in that 01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:09.000 case I guess I do have to kind 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:11.000 of own up and say here's my 01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:12.000 tradition here's where I come 01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:14.000 from and really because that's 01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:16.000 the only interesting way that 01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:17.000 I can kind of get across as 01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:18.000 like I still may not be able 01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:20.000 to understand you but I might 01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:21.000 be able to communicate with you 01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:23.000 better than the other therapist 01:27:23.000 --> 01:27:25.000 down the street who who doesn't 01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:27.000 identify with anything right if 01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:30.000 that's enough to kind of sway 01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:31.000 a kind of competency issue 01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:33.000 if you will -- but then I'm 01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:34.000 always following it up with 01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:36.000 but I'm not the master I only 01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:39.000 know my faith life identity my 01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:41.000 experience of that identity I 01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:42.000 can't promise anything beyond 01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:43.000 that right and again that's 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:46.000 the informed consent piece 01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:47.000 what gets tricky for us as 01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:48.000 clinicians is when someone 01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:50.000 doesn't identify with any 01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:51.000 mainstream cultural group 01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:53.000 right but rather is just 01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:54.000 some kind of unique spiritual 01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:56.000 engagement but then we also 01:27:56.000 --> 01:27:57.000 have to gauge against our 01:27:57.000 --> 01:27:59.000 own kind of sense of normalcy 01:27:59.000 --> 01:27:61.000 right like I mean if if your 01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:03.000 life suddenly changes and you 01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:06.000 are now living under a tree 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:07.000 and like cultivating this 01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:08.000 tree the tree is your life 01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:09.000 and it's going to give you 01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:11.000 the source of all things but 01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:12.000 you're not eating sleeping 01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:14.000 working you're not doing kind 01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:15.000 of the basic necessities of 01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:18.000 life that we would assess for 01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:19.000 that's clinical significance 01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:21.000 which means there's something 01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:23.000 we need to determine right the 01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:25.000 problem is is we can't know if 01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:26.000 there's anyone else but if he's 01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:29.000 alone in the woods doing this 01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:30.000 obviously it's not a normative 01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:31.000 enough experience for that 01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:33.000 to be normal also the other 01:28:33.000 --> 01:28:36.000 piece is how impactful is this 01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:38.000 in your day to day life right 01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:39.000 so if suddenly your life is 01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:41.000 changing and oriented toward 01:28:41.000 --> 01:28:43.000 some spirit who's telling 01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:44.000 you to do things but that's 01:28:44.000 --> 01:28:45.000 never been a part of your life 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:46.000 before and you're actually 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:48.000 following through on them it's 01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.000 clinical significance right 01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:50.000 there's something odd about 01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:51.000 that so you'll always want to 01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:53.000 assess what's the longevity 01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:54.000 you've been a hermit in the 01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:56.000 mountains forever that's your 01:28:56.000 --> 01:28:58.000 thing that's different but if 01:28:58.000 --> 01:28:60.000 it changes overnight your life 01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:01.000 falling apart and you can't cope 01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:04.000 it's a different story rain 01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:05.000 verses the difference though 01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:07.000 between like I converted and 01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:08.000 now I'm trying to make sense 01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:10.000 of my world and some things are 01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:11.000 falling apart because like I'm 01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:13.000 told I can't do xyz 01:29:13.000 --> 01:29:16.000 still different than like not 01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:17.000 eating sleeping showering all 01:29:17.000 --> 01:29:20.000 those kinds of pieces seems helpful 01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:21.000 to listen for themes because 01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:23.000 those re-link to real world 01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:25.000 events so like grief and 01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:27.000 loss grief and loss spiritual 01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:30.000 practices meaning and purpose 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:31.000 issues but also divergence 01:29:31.000 --> 01:29:33.000 like leaving one's faith new 01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:35.000 community different people 01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:37.000 adjusting cultural into new 01:29:37.000 --> 01:29:39.000 cultural norms things like that 01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:41.000 struggling for forgiveness is 01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:42.000 an interesting story about a 01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:44.000 a Catholic therapist who was 01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:46.000 working with them a female 01:29:46.000 --> 01:29:47.000 who was dealing with I'm 01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:48.000 never going to be forgiven 01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:50.000 for the sin I committed in my 01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:52.000 life and the therapist being 01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:54.000 Catholic as well thinking 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:56.000 through how does that fit with 01:29:56.000 --> 01:29:57.000 the faith structure that a 01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.000 person's living opened up a 01:29:59.000 --> 01:29:62.000 conversation about sacramental 01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:03.000 reconciliation so going into 01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:05.000 the box for confession and 01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:07.000 how that actually changed the 01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:09.000 perception -- and was able to 01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:10.000 relinquish some of that guilt 01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:12.000 and shame and finding some 01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:13.000 place of forgiveness within 01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:15.000 that right so again not like 01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:16.000 you're telling the client to 01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:17.000 do these things but you're 01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:19.000 pulling in a natural support 01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:20.000 system that's a part of this 01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:22.000 client's life and are there 01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:24.000 things present in this even if 01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:26.000 it is just a community a loving 01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:27.000 community who's willing to give 01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:29.000 a second chance they can be a 01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:30.000 whole sorts of things that can 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:32.000 change a client's life a little 01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:33.000 bit of an easier case study 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:35.000 here counselor at a university 01:30:35.000 --> 01:30:38.000 setting first client is a first 01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:40.000 generation student of an ethnic 01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:41.000 background I left this one 01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:43.000 really vague so you can come up 01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:44.000 with all sorts of pieces to the 01:30:44.000 --> 01:30:47.000 puzzle who identifies as Muslim 01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:48.000 student describes significant 01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:49.000 anxiety between the values of 01:30:49.000 --> 01:30:51.000 this family of origin religious 01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:53.000 beliefs and emerging personal 01:30:53.000 --> 01:30:55.000 beliefs and a university 01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:56.000 describes feeling lost 01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:59.000 the sad and isolated so we 01:30:59.000 --> 01:30:60.000 can pretty much route this 01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:03.000 under maybe depression maybe 01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:04.000 some anxiety maybe right for 01:31:04.000 --> 01:31:06.000 clinical -- what else would 01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:10.000 you be thinking about how is 01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:11.000 religion going to be a maybe a 01:31:11.000 --> 01:31:15.000 part of this presenting problem 01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:17.000 yeah I wonder how much support 01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:18.000 he draws from his family in his 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:20.000 religious community because if 01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:22.000 he loses that that could make 01:31:22.000 --> 01:31:24.000 his presenting problem worse or 01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:25.000 is there a way to incorporate 01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:27.000 these new beliefs and have that 01:31:27.000 --> 01:31:29.000 open dialogue with that support 01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:30.000 system so that he can be going 01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:31.000 through this transition while 01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:32.000 still receiving the support 01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:34.000 that's probably been one of 01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:36.000 the biggest supporters in his 01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:39.000 entire life uh huh because making 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:41.000 a significant decision to 01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:42.000 remove him from a whole host 01:31:42.000 --> 01:31:43.000 of comforts right even if 01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:45.000 they're not a hundred percent 01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:46.000 best thing I've got supporting 01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:48.000 me right now it's better than 01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:50.000 having none right sure anything 01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:52.000 else Nicosa I was just 01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:54.000 thinking that you know he's 01:31:54.000 --> 01:31:57.000 a minority student -- going 01:31:57.000 --> 01:31:60.000 to school and -- emerging 01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:02.000 personal beliefs that don't 01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:04.000 exactly coincide possibly with 01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:06.000 his family and his religion 01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:08.000 and then being Muslim you 01:32:08.000 --> 01:32:09.000 you're possibly stereotyped 01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:12.000 so being isolated student who 01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:15.000 is having conflicting values 01:32:17.000 --> 01:32:19.000 stacked on top of each other -- 01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:21.000 so I would just ask and try to 01:32:21.000 --> 01:32:23.000 meet the client where they are 01:32:23.000 --> 01:32:25.000 like where are you right now 01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:29.000 can I help you figure those 01:32:29.000 --> 01:32:32.000 beliefs out and I was double 01:32:32.000 --> 01:32:33.000 checking my language because I 01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:35.000 don't think I put a pronoun in 01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:38.000 here did I so I I kind of lead 01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:39.000 you in the direction but I was 01:32:39.000 --> 01:32:41.000 also thinking we could easily 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:42.000 flip this too because what if 01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:44.000 this was a female client who 01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:47.000 is married and is wearing let's 01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:48.000 say the full shebang right 01:32:48.000 --> 01:32:50.000 and the burqa and what might 01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:52.000 that change the significance 01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:53.000 of this counseling relationship 01:32:53.000 --> 01:32:55.000 right because not only family 01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:56.000 but we're talking about like 01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:58.000 committed relationships with 01:32:58.000 --> 01:32:59.000 a partner maybe some kids and 01:32:59.000 --> 01:32:61.000 family and now second guessing 01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:02.000 a lot of things making changes 01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:04.000 wanting to kind of be this 01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:06.000 own unique person and how 01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:07.000 all of that's going to tie 01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:09.000 together for some significant 01:33:09.000 --> 01:33:10.000 change and difficulties for 01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:12.000 this particular individual 01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:13.000 and there's a piece of that I 01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:14.000 think is important for us as 01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:16.000 clinicians because what I would 01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:19.000 say is is there a chance that 01:33:19.000 --> 01:33:21.000 this person is operating under 01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:23.000 some false assumptions about 01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:28.000 their faith life potentially 01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:29.000 because the reason I bring 01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:31.000 that up is that something 01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:34.000 right like for instance in 01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:35.000 in my own work with some 01:33:35.000 --> 01:33:38.000 of the Catholic clients like 01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:39.000 divorced individuals are coming 01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:41.000 and taking a longer receive 01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:43.000 communion and you know I 01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:44.000 don't have this conversation 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:45.000 I directed back to clergy 01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:47.000 those who are responsible for 01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:48.000 being able to to dish out the 01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:50.000 details but knowing a little 01:33:50.000 --> 01:33:52.000 bit about the context knowing 01:33:52.000 --> 01:33:53.000 that that's not an accurate 01:33:53.000 --> 01:33:54.000 statement and that doesn't 01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:56.000 have to significantly change 01:33:56.000 --> 01:33:57.000 your life your faith life your 01:33:57.000 --> 01:33:59.000 community and being able to 01:33:59.000 --> 01:33:60.000 send them back and be able to 01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:02.000 find that on their own but then 01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:04.000 when they can come back and say 01:34:04.000 --> 01:34:05.000 this changes the difficulty I 01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:07.000 have in my life right because 01:34:07.000 --> 01:34:09.000 of this particular context so 01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:12.000 so I mean is it a valid part 01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:15.000 of counseling to kind of refer 01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:16.000 them out to someone who knows 01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:17.000 these things better and this 01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:19.000 comes back to kind of Eva's 01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:20.000 comment right like I ate for 01:34:20.000 --> 01:34:23.000 certain I am not the master of 01:34:23.000 --> 01:34:24.000 any particular religious 01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:27.000 denomination right especially 01:34:27.000 --> 01:34:28.000 your particular community and 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:30.000 so where do we go to find out 01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:32.000 how big of a problem is this 01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:33.000 going to be is this even a 01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:35.000 problem first of all because 01:34:35.000 --> 01:34:36.000 then we can I mean that changes 01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:37.000 right if it's not a problem 01:34:37.000 --> 01:34:39.000 you mean anything anymore but 01:34:39.000 --> 01:34:42.000 if religion and spirituality 01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:43.000 the aspect of that is what's 01:34:43.000 --> 01:34:44.000 creating the significant change 01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:46.000 and anxiety about life let's 01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:48.000 make sure that really is about 01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:49.000 a valid reason to experience 01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:51.000 those things and then continue 01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:53.000 to work together but how we 01:34:53.000 --> 01:34:54.000 smooth that out make those 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:56.000 choices leave continue 01:34:56.000 --> 01:34:57.000 whatever that looks like 01:34:57.000 --> 01:34:59.000 so I'm thinking like 01:34:59.000 --> 01:34:61.000 like what if they're coming to a 01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:02.000 counselor because they feel 01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:04.000 like if they go to clergy then 01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:07.000 they're gonna be advised and 01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:10.000 told how to feel healthy and 01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:11.000 they're trying to pull away 01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:12.000 from that and trying to figure 01:35:12.000 --> 01:35:14.000 out how they feel and how they 01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:17.000 process for themselves -- so 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:19.000 would you still be turning them away 01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:22.000 but it's more about how can I 01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:23.000 resource you to make sure we're 01:35:23.000 --> 01:35:24.000 operating from the same like 01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:25.000 rule book if you want to put 01:35:25.000 --> 01:35:27.000 it that way right because I'd 01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:28.000 rather them be able to know 01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:29.000 and find out for themselves 01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:31.000 that these are legitimate 01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:33.000 to have to face like if they 01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:34.000 make this choice they're going 01:35:34.000 --> 01:35:36.000 to be ostracized from their 01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:38.000 community that's important 01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:40.000 thing to know verses like we 01:35:40.000 --> 01:35:41.000 can work through that let's 01:35:41.000 --> 01:35:42.000 talk about that meet with 01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:44.000 the pastor will go through 01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:45.000 marriage prep classes get you 01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:46.000 guys married and everything's 01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:48.000 fine versus having them I don't 01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:50.000 know some issue around -- you 01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:51.000 know cohabitating the house 01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:52.000 together right like various 01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:53.000 things like that can create 01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:56.000 tons of turmoil and so it just 01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:57.000 hopeful sometimes for us refer 01:35:57.000 --> 01:35:59.000 that out because we shouldn't 01:35:59.000 --> 01:35:61.000 be the ones dishing out the 01:36:01.000 --> 01:36:02.000 rule books the context and 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:04.000 we we can maybe research some 01:36:04.000 --> 01:36:06.000 things together maybe but at 01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:07.000 the same time there are people 01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:09.000 who are more appropriate to 01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.000 serving those needs than for me 01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:12.000 I'm here to deal with how do we 01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:14.000 roll with that moving forward 01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:15.000 now that you know that this 01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:17.000 is going to be an issue what 01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:18.000 does that mean for us what does 01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:20.000 that mean for your life choices 01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:22.000 and how do we address that and 01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:24.000 how do we put some safety nets 01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:25.000 and address those pieces grief 01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:28.000 and loss change new people in 01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:30.000 your life how do we build those 01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:32.000 friendships relationships talk 01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:33.000 about our past talk about the 01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:35.000 future all counseling stuff 01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:37.000 right so that's the piece 01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:38.000 again this is that fence line 01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:40.000 I was highlighting earlier right 01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:41.000 where you really can't play 01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:42.000 both sides of that right so 01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:44.000 even if you have a master's 01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:46.000 degree in theology you really 01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:48.000 can't play that side right like 01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:49.000 that's separate from the work 01:36:49.000 --> 01:36:50.000 that we're doing because we're 01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:51.000 dealing with how is all of this 01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:53.000 impacting your life decisions 01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:54.000 or your ability to live your 01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:56.000 quality of life those are the 01:36:56.000 --> 01:36:58.000 things we're going to address 01:36:58.000 --> 01:36:59.000 I'm gonna send you somewhere 01:36:59.000 --> 01:36:60.000 else so that you can get all 01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:01.000 the information you need to 01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:03.000 know about how is this going to 01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:05.000 impact those things is that clear 01:37:05.000 --> 01:37:07.000 that's the piece I really want 01:37:07.000 --> 01:37:08.000 to make clear we can't play 01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:10.000 both sides our side is just 01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:12.000 how is that going to impact 01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:14.000 you and if I'm afraid you 01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:16.000 might be wrong let's make sure 01:37:16.000 --> 01:37:18.000 before we plan for the worst 01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:20.000 catastrophizing and find out 01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:22.000 everything's gonna be fine this 01:37:22.000 --> 01:37:23.000 is just my opinion because what 01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:25.000 I would say is you normally 01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.000 defined dual relationship as 01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:29.000 like I'm having Thanksgiving 01:37:29.000 --> 01:37:30.000 dinner with you guys like 01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:32.000 every year like that's enough 01:37:32.000 --> 01:37:33.000 of a dual relationship for me 01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:34.000 because things are happening 01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:35.000 we're talking about those three 01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:36.000 things we're not supposed to 01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:38.000 do and like I know you your 01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:39.000 family dynamics the whole nine 01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:41.000 yards and I would say church is 01:37:41.000 --> 01:37:43.000 somewhat the same way in the 01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:45.000 sense that even if you've 01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:47.000 never met this person maybe 01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:48.000 you've seen them in some big 01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:50.000 congregation or even a small 01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:52.000 congregation the thing is is 01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:53.000 that that overlaps you and that 01:37:53.000 --> 01:37:55.000 ties you together in some way 01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:57.000 right so if we were to use you 01:37:57.000 --> 01:37:58.000 know both Catholics of the same 01:37:58.000 --> 01:37:60.000 parish you're connected in so 01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:02.000 many different levels right 01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:04.000 from activities involvement 01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:08.000 a prayer group because I'm not 01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:10.000 gonna orient my life around 01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:12.000 you that I have to like remove 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:14.000 myself completely separately 01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:15.000 but we need to make sure we 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:16.000 hash out there what that looks 01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:18.000 like because when you see me 01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:19.000 you can't talk about oh he's 01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:21.000 my therapist right here you 01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:22.000 shouldn't talk about like oh 01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:23.000 I'm gonna see you next week 01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:25.000 and shit went down this weekend 01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:27.000 right like if I know that's 01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:28.000 we're not gonna talk about that 01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:29.000 we're not going to deal with 01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:31.000 those things so so yeah I mean 01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:32.000 we have to define a little bit 01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:35.000 about what that looks like but 01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:36.000 I'd say any chance that you're 01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:37.000 going to run into your client 01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:39.000 more than just at the grocery 01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:43.000 store maybe more than just 01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:45.000 Sunday church service need to 01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:47.000 be having some conversations 01:38:47.000 --> 01:38:48.000 about what that looks like 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:50.000 yeah wrote her dissertation 01:38:50.000 --> 01:38:52.000 on dual relationships versus 01:38:52.000 --> 01:38:54.000 overlapping relationships 01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:55.000 and she considered that an 01:38:55.000 --> 01:38:56.000 overlapping relationships 01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:57.000 within the deaf community it's 01:38:57.000 --> 01:38:58.000 super popular you see people 01:38:58.000 --> 01:38:60.000 events all the time but because 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:01.000 you're not in a position of 01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:04.000 power and because you're not 01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:06.000 necessarily finding out like 01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:07.000 super in depth information 01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:09.000 about them is mostly just 01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:10.000 you're in the same vicinity 01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:12.000 at the same time we talk about 01:39:12.000 --> 01:39:13.000 that class and she like for 01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:15.000 that example at church or at 01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:17.000 closed captioned movies and 01:39:17.000 --> 01:39:18.000 stuff like that it would be 01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:19.000 considered an overlapping 01:39:19.000 --> 01:39:21.000 relationship which is like 01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:22.000 still a dual relationship but it's like 01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:25.000 a step down so it's not as 01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:26.000 you're less likely to have 01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:28.000 ethical dilemmas or violations 01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:30.000 and you know what I would do 01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:31.000 in that case because that's 01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:33.000 interesting to me but I don't 01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:35.000 see that language in my ethics 01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:37.000 manual which means I'm left 01:39:37.000 --> 01:39:38.000 to be the one to justify that 01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:40.000 to the board for what that 01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:41.000 looks like and how I thought 01:39:41.000 --> 01:39:43.000 through that and there's a 01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:45.000 part of me that would love 01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:46.000 even if it's just a thought 01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:47.000 experiment would be to bring 01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:51.000 that to the board and be like 01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:52.000 or even just another clinician 01:39:52.000 --> 01:39:53.000 let's remove the board but just 01:39:53.000 --> 01:39:55.000 bring it to like supervision 01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:56.000 to another clinician and say 01:39:56.000 --> 01:39:58.000 do you see a difference here 01:39:58.000 --> 01:39:60.000 because my fear would be maybe 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:01.000 I see the difference I can 01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:03.000 clearly use two terms but your 01:40:03.000 --> 01:40:05.000 ethics board is looking at dual 01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:09.000 role multiple relationships 01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:12.000 and as you see in this room 01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:13.000 already tons of different 01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.000 values opinions and and how 01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:16.000 they would address and look at 01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:18.000 that the last thing you want 01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:19.000 is to be the board saying we 01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:20.000 don't know when an overlapping 01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:23.000 relationship is sounds like a 01:40:23.000 --> 01:40:25.000 dual role to us here's here's 01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:26.000 your corrective action right 01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:29.000 like so again it's like kind 01:40:29.000 --> 01:40:30.000 of both ways right you need to 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:32.000 figure it out for yourself but 01:40:32.000 --> 01:40:34.000 I am always apt to be like hey 01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:35.000 clinical sup what does this 01:40:35.000 --> 01:40:37.000 look like to you would you be 01:40:37.000 --> 01:40:40.000 concerned about you know this 01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:43.000 or is this just fine we're good 01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:45.000 but but what you're addressing 01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:47.000 is right that overlapping 01:40:47.000 --> 01:40:48.000 versus kind of dual which 01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:49.000 is just like I'm not having 01:40:49.000 --> 01:40:50.000 Thanksgiving dinner I'm not 01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:52.000 married to your cousin like you 01:40:52.000 --> 01:40:53.000 know all those kinds of things 01:40:53.000 --> 01:40:55.000 which really tie and connect you 01:40:55.000 --> 01:40:57.000 in more intimate more depth 01:40:57.000 --> 01:40:58.000 of knowledge about your client 01:40:58.000 --> 01:40:60.000 and then kind of 01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:02.000 we see each other on church on Sunday 01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:05.000 Catholics want to support Catholics so they 01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:06.000 have a like a newspaper that 01:41:06.000 --> 01:41:08.000 goes out and on the back of it 01:41:08.000 --> 01:41:11.000 Sentinel yeah thank you yeah 01:41:11.000 --> 01:41:12.000 and it it if you want a plumber 01:41:12.000 --> 01:41:13.000 you want a Catholic plumber 01:41:13.000 --> 01:41:14.000 if you want a doctor you one 01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:16.000 of the doctors thought about 01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:18.000 putting my own ad in the bulletin 01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:20.000 yeah counselors I mean you 01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:21.000 can have all these businesses 01:41:21.000 --> 01:41:22.000 that are on the on the Catholic 01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:24.000 Sentinel so it's kind of a 01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:25.000 fuzzy line when you got someone 01:41:25.000 --> 01:41:27.000 who is likely to go talk to a 01:41:27.000 --> 01:41:28.000 counselor and they have their 01:41:28.000 --> 01:41:29.000 little newspaper look on the 01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:31.000 back and start you know I want 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:32.000 to see this guy because he's 01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:33.000 Catholic because I want to go 01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:35.000 to a Catholic counselor then 01:41:35.000 --> 01:41:36.000 it's like well what if that 01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:38.000 person does go to your parish 01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:40.000 when and that's the piece that 01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:42.000 kind of creeps me out about 01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:43.000 overlapping relationship right 01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:45.000 because I can easily fall into 01:41:45.000 --> 01:41:47.000 that mode in particular where it's just 01:41:47.000 --> 01:41:48.000 like yeah we're both Catholic 01:41:48.000 --> 01:41:49.000 but then like I meet plenty 01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:51.000 of people in the university 01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:52.000 start talking I'm excited about 01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:54.000 another Catholic colleague and 01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:55.000 then suddenly I realize we are 01:41:55.000 --> 01:41:58.000 on separate pages like about 01:41:58.000 --> 01:41:59.000 it literally could be from 01:41:59.000 --> 01:41:60.000 everything other than we go 01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:02.000 to the same parish on Sunday 01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:04.000 right like so if I operate 01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:05.000 with those assumptions and 01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:08.000 let that flow that's run like 01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:11.000 they're still that connection 01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:12.000 even if it's not the most 01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:13.000 broadest level that I can 01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:15.000 make assumptions about this 01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:16.000 person who also happens to be 01:42:16.000 --> 01:42:18.000 my client and that's going to 01:42:18.000 --> 01:42:21.000 impact how we work together 01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:23.000 so to speak hopefully not that 01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:24.000 weird again if you just see 01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:27.000 each other once a week I doubt 01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:28.000 it's going to be that bad but 01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:29.000 there there are levels but 01:42:29.000 --> 01:42:31.000 again were also on the hook 01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:32.000 this up with the board exists 01:42:32.000 --> 01:42:34.000 for right is on the they're on 01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:36.000 the hook so that we think these 01:42:36.000 --> 01:42:38.000 things through so that we put 01:42:38.000 --> 01:42:40.000 up the barriers we need to do 01:42:40.000 --> 01:42:41.000 to keep ourselves safe but also 01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:43.000 our clients safe 01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:44.000 I've been told many churches 01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:45.000 that do like prayer requests 01:42:45.000 --> 01:42:48.000 differently and so if it passes 01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:49.000 up there saying like talking 01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:51.000 about you and your clients in 01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:54.000 the room like all the like you 01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:56.000 know I'm saying then you're 01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:59.000 like I can't fully be present 01:42:59.000 --> 01:42:61.000 in my religion and I want 01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:03.000 this like people to pray for me 01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:05.000 in this room but they can't 01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:06.000 because then my account like 01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:07.000 my client's gonna know 01:43:07.000 --> 01:43:10.000 that brings me to my next case study actually 01:43:10.000 --> 01:43:11.000 so that's a good one in fact as 01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:14.000 you were talking I was thinking 01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:15.000 this could be all sorts of 01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:16.000 weirdness to like if a client 01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:18.000 when at some point during a 01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:21.000 service was asking for like 01:43:21.000 --> 01:43:23.000 donations because of cancer and 01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:25.000 then you know from your intake 01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:26.000 that this person doesn't have 01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:28.000 cancer and suddenly the sounds 01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:30.000 like it I'm sure it's happened 01:43:30.000 --> 01:43:31.000 somewhere so all sorts of weird 01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:33.000 things that now you bring back 01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:34.000 to counseling session because 01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:35.000 it's kind of like so I know 01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:38.000 you were just talking stories 01:43:38.000 --> 01:43:39.000 to get money like there is 01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:40.000 a point which something like 01:43:40.000 --> 01:43:42.000 that might need to get brought 01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:44.000 up I have to think a little 01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:45.000 bit more about how I do that 01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:47.000 but it's happened even at like 01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:49.000 in a voc rehab setting client 01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:51.000 tells you one thing employer 01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:52.000 tells you another thing job 01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:53.000 developer tells you another 01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:55.000 thing at some point you gotta 01:43:55.000 --> 01:43:57.000 be like your employer saying 01:43:57.000 --> 01:43:59.000 this so you know again I'd 01:43:59.000 --> 01:43:60.000 have to think this through 01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:02.000 a little bit more but I can 01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:03.000 get all sorts of convoluted 01:44:03.000 --> 01:44:05.000 were overlapping becomes maybe 01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:09.000 more so next case study client 01:44:09.000 --> 01:44:10.000 comes to you for therapy and 01:44:10.000 --> 01:44:11.000 has expressed a desire to 01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:12.000 work with a clinician who 01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:16.000 understands her Christian faith 01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:17.000 what questions would you want 01:44:17.000 --> 01:44:22.000 to ask or what would you say 01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:26.000 earlier I gave it away already 01:44:26.000 --> 01:44:30.000 anything else how about if this 01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:33.000 person continues to describe 01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:35.000 their divine life their devout 01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:37.000 practices and asked if it would 01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:39.000 be okay to begin each session 01:44:39.000 --> 01:44:41.000 with prayer where does the sit 01:44:41.000 --> 01:44:43.000 in your your back pocket 01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:45.000 this is real life examples 01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:47.000 these two happen all the time 01:44:47.000 --> 01:44:50.000 so for me I think -- what I 01:44:50.000 --> 01:44:51.000 can remember the six things 01:44:51.000 --> 01:44:52.000 of ethics but it's pretty much 01:44:52.000 --> 01:44:55.000 treating all of your clients 01:44:55.000 --> 01:44:56.000 the same kind of not having 01:44:56.000 --> 01:44:58.000 a priority so for me if I 01:44:58.000 --> 01:44:59.000 had somebody that justice yes 01:44:59.000 --> 01:44:60.000 find somebody of Christian 01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:01.000 faith come in and asked to 01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:03.000 pray with them personally I'm 01:45:03.000 --> 01:45:04.000 comfortable with it if they 01:45:04.000 --> 01:45:05.000 feel that they need my support 01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:07.000 in that moment I can do it and 01:45:07.000 --> 01:45:08.000 at the same time if somebody was 01:45:08.000 --> 01:45:10.000 Muslim and wanted me to get 01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:11.000 on the floor with them into 01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:12.000 prayer I would have to do the 01:45:12.000 --> 01:45:14.000 same thing so I think for me 01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:16.000 it would have to be across 01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:17.000 the board if somebody wanted 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:18.000 to meditate for five minutes 01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:20.000 I couldn't pick and choose 01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:22.000 what I'm comfortable with sure 01:45:22.000 --> 01:45:24.000 necessarily because when it's 01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:27.000 my own biases being like -- 01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:28.000 if I'd like if I practice this 01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:29.000 night I grew with it then I 01:45:29.000 --> 01:45:31.000 can do it but if somebody wants 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:32.000 meditate with me and sit on 01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:33.000 the floor you know that's kind 01:45:33.000 --> 01:45:34.000 of weird and so I feel like I 01:45:34.000 --> 01:45:36.000 would have to make sure that I 01:45:36.000 --> 01:45:37.000 was in check and if I was going 01:45:37.000 --> 01:45:38.000 to do it I was going to do it 01:45:38.000 --> 01:45:40.000 with anyone out of a poll so 01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:41.000 you took it to the next step 01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:42.000 where I was going but as a as 01:45:42.000 --> 01:45:44.000 a poll of the audience here how 01:45:44.000 --> 01:45:46.000 many of you would participate 01:45:46.000 --> 01:45:48.000 actively participate in prayer 01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:51.000 with your client in the room 01:45:51.000 --> 01:45:54.000 I specified what kind 01:45:54.000 --> 01:45:56.000 I wouldn't for that reason because 01:45:56.000 --> 01:45:57.000 if they tell me to worship 01:45:57.000 --> 01:45:58.000 wanted to pray to the devil 01:45:58.000 --> 01:45:60.000 or Satan I probably be like ahh 01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:02.000 one because it might bump up 01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:05.000 against some sort of reality 01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:06.000 okay actually I haven't thought 01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:07.000 about that one but that's a 01:46:07.000 --> 01:46:10.000 good one is that would that 01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:11.000 would make me do some cart 01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:14.000 wheels actually some I don't 01:46:14.000 --> 01:46:15.000 actively participate in prayer 01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:16.000 with my clients will just say 01:46:16.000 --> 01:46:18.000 that now but thoughts 01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:21.000 morally it sounds 01:46:21.000 --> 01:46:22.000 like I'm being disrespectful 01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:24.000 because I don't understand your 01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:25.000 religious I don't participate 01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:27.000 in your religion and I'm not 01:46:27.000 --> 01:46:28.000 going to pray to the person 01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:30.000 that you pray to because that 01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:33.000 to me is morally wrong so it's 01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:34.000 so it's about respecting like 01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:38.000 a cultural diversity then and 01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:39.000 kind of like when entering 01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:41.000 like a Jewish temple you put 01:46:41.000 --> 01:46:42.000 your yamaka out of respect 01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:43.000 right so there's either you 01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:44.000 do or you don't but there's 01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:46.000 like let's not get too gray 01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:48.000 so I can value that 01:46:48.000 --> 01:46:49.000 having a conversation with a client 01:46:49.000 --> 01:46:51.000 that starts with I understand 01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:53.000 you find that helps you get 01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:56.000 centered and I am willing to -- 01:46:56.000 --> 01:46:58.000 respect your time while you're 01:46:58.000 --> 01:46:60.000 doing that but I am not going 01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:03.000 to join you so that is the method 01:47:03.000 --> 01:47:06.000 I use I make it known right 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:07.000 up front I'm like I'm totally 01:47:07.000 --> 01:47:09.000 down if that's what helps you 01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:10.000 and in fact I will be present 01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:12.000 with you in my own way but I 01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:13.000 will be silent it may not even 01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:15.000 look like I'm doing anything 01:47:15.000 --> 01:47:17.000 but I am putting your best 01:47:17.000 --> 01:47:18.000 interests at the forefront 01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:20.000 of my mind I try to even avoid 01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:21.000 the kind of like in my heart 01:47:21.000 --> 01:47:23.000 or some sort of like weird 01:47:23.000 --> 01:47:24.000 kind of emotional connection 01:47:24.000 --> 01:47:26.000 anything but really make it 01:47:26.000 --> 01:47:27.000 this kind of flat moment that's 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:28.000 like totally fine I honor that 01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:30.000 respect that you do you and I 01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:32.000 will be here present with him 01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:35.000 why would I be open to that 01:47:35.000 --> 01:47:38.000 well that's one it's about 01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:39.000 them what's another reason I'm 01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:43.000 open to observing or hearing 01:47:43.000 --> 01:47:45.000 the words that they're using 01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:46.000 added peace of that though 01:47:46.000 --> 01:47:48.000 is not only it could be pick 01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:50.000 up on significant issues in a 01:47:50.000 --> 01:47:51.000 client's life but we're going 01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:53.000 to pick up on external or 01:47:53.000 --> 01:47:55.000 internal locus of control right 01:47:55.000 --> 01:47:56.000 because it sounds different 01:47:56.000 --> 01:47:58.000 when you say god make this 01:47:58.000 --> 01:47:59.000 happen for me I mean they'll 01:47:59.000 --> 01:47:62.000 say that more kind of they 01:48:02.000 --> 01:48:04.000 won't say it quite like that 01:48:04.000 --> 01:48:05.000 but you'll get the meaning of 01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:07.000 that verses like give me the 01:48:07.000 --> 01:48:09.000 strength to be able to face 01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:10.000 my fear they're still the 01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:12.000 connection of like there's 01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:13.000 some role I have to play in this 01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:14.000 it's not magically going to 01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:16.000 happen right but there are some 01:48:16.000 --> 01:48:17.000 kind of spiritual religious 01:48:17.000 --> 01:48:19.000 frameworks that lend themselves 01:48:19.000 --> 01:48:20.000 to like magical thinking right 01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:21.000 like somehow I'm gonna snap 01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:22.000 my fingers and everything's 01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:24.000 gonna be okay that makes my 01:48:24.000 --> 01:48:26.000 job as a therapist much harder 01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:27.000 because I'm all about what do 01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:29.000 we need to do to get you there 01:48:29.000 --> 01:48:32.000 if you're expecting a miracle 01:48:32.000 --> 01:48:33.000 not sure how I can help you 01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:35.000 with that but I can help you 01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:37.000 take steps so that maybe we 01:48:37.000 --> 01:48:39.000 see it as successful resolution 01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:41.000 to that thing you just shared 01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:43.000 about your prayer makes sense 01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:44.000 it can be very helpful to kind 01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:46.000 of get that clients worldview 01:48:46.000 --> 01:48:48.000 framework how they operate 01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:51.000 in the world I actually used it as a coping 01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:52.000 skill this is something that 01:48:52.000 --> 01:48:54.000 was important to them or trying 01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:55.000 to find ways to distract the 01:48:55.000 --> 01:48:57.000 mind when they're feeling 01:48:57.000 --> 01:48:59.000 whatever they're working on 01:48:59.000 --> 01:48:60.000 it ever since and so that was 01:49:00.000 --> 01:49:02.000 something that was important 01:49:02.000 --> 01:49:03.000 to them whether it was the same 01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:05.000 to me that there was religious 01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:08.000 praying whatever you know however 01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:10.000 they wanted to utilize that 01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:11.000 it was something that I was 01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:14.000 able to use as a coping skill for them 01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:16.000 if I can tweak that as well 01:49:16.000 --> 01:49:17.000 I have sometimes found I've 01:49:17.000 --> 01:49:19.000 had a client before that would 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:21.000 pray at the end of the session 01:49:21.000 --> 01:49:22.000 and I never told the client this 01:49:22.000 --> 01:49:23.000 but it worked out in my favor 01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:24.000 because she would always end 01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:26.000 up including what was valuable 01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:29.000 in session and so it was it was very 01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:31.000 helpful to me like okay so this 01:49:31.000 --> 01:49:33.000 was very we can pick up on this 01:49:33.000 --> 01:49:34.000 kind of thing -- but I thought 01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:35.000 it was very interesting and it 01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:37.000 worked for her in many other 01:49:37.000 --> 01:49:38.000 respects in terms of concluding 01:49:38.000 --> 01:49:40.000 things and and she would 01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:41.000 bring back hallmark that often 01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:44.000 centered on what she she left 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:46.000 with us like it's great so it 01:49:46.000 --> 01:49:47.000 actually help me both ends to 01:49:47.000 --> 01:49:48.000 have it at the beginning at the 01:49:48.000 --> 01:49:51.000 end then it was it Nicosa and 01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:53.000 I think Tonya I think from a 01:49:53.000 --> 01:49:56.000 person centered -- theory I 01:49:56.000 --> 01:49:58.000 think that really meeting your 01:49:58.000 --> 01:49:60.000 client where they are -- so 01:50:00.000 --> 01:50:02.000 not necessarily saying like 01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:05.000 you know -- telling your whole 01:50:05.000 --> 01:50:06.000 story and saying like you know 01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:09.000 I'm not of that faith maybe 01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:12.000 not in that situation but -- 01:50:12.000 --> 01:50:14.000 allowing the client to choose 01:50:14.000 --> 01:50:15.000 what they want to do during 01:50:15.000 --> 01:50:17.000 this session I think it is more 01:50:17.000 --> 01:50:19.000 important than -- kind of like 01:50:19.000 --> 01:50:21.000 uncovering what your faith is 01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:23.000 I guess but really focusing on 01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:24.000 how is that going to help the 01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:26.000 client during the session yeah 01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:27.000 and not focusing on yourself 01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:31.000 and focus -- request I guess 01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:32.000 and I guess maybe I should 01:50:32.000 --> 01:50:33.000 preface that but I would be 01:50:33.000 --> 01:50:35.000 the first one say a clinician 01:50:35.000 --> 01:50:36.000 no matter how experienced 01:50:36.000 --> 01:50:37.000 you are should never have 01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:39.000 to self disclose to make the 01:50:39.000 --> 01:50:40.000 therapeutic relationship work 01:50:40.000 --> 01:50:42.000 that is the skill of being a 01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:44.000 successful clinician is that 01:50:44.000 --> 01:50:47.000 you can you can kind of dancing 01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:48.000 and skirting sounds horrible 01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:50.000 but kind of you know move 01:50:50.000 --> 01:50:52.000 around the issue but yet give 01:50:52.000 --> 01:50:53.000 the client what it is they're 01:50:53.000 --> 01:50:54.000 actually looking for right 01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:56.000 because ultimately in the end 01:50:56.000 --> 01:50:57.000 there's nothing about me that's 01:50:57.000 --> 01:50:59.000 going to change our successful 01:50:59.000 --> 01:50:60.000 outcome towards counseling it's 01:51:00.000 --> 01:51:02.000 all on you there may be things 01:51:02.000 --> 01:51:04.000 you want to know me maybe feel 01:51:04.000 --> 01:51:05.000 more comfortable but really 01:51:05.000 --> 01:51:06.000 that just means we're gonna 01:51:06.000 --> 01:51:07.000 spend more time building were 01:51:07.000 --> 01:51:09.000 rapport it's not going to destroy 01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:10.000 this relationship unless you 01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:12.000 wanted to and then we'll we'll 01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:13.000 talk about that if that kind 01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:15.000 of arises but but I think that 01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:16.000 is valuable like that let's 01:51:16.000 --> 01:51:18.000 not get lost in our side but 01:51:18.000 --> 01:51:20.000 but really focus on how is this 01:51:20.000 --> 01:51:21.000 helpful for them and doesn't 01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:23.000 help them create outcomes for 01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:25.000 change resources those kinds 01:51:25.000 --> 01:51:26.000 of things so I have a couple 01:51:26.000 --> 01:51:28.000 of other things that aren't 01:51:28.000 --> 01:51:30.000 terribly important but they're 01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:31.000 I can make him available and 01:51:31.000 --> 01:51:34.000 I'll put I have to fix my rough 01:51:34.000 --> 01:51:36.000 draft my rough final draft 01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:37.000 and put some other resources 01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:38.000 and things but I am more than 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:40.000 happy to be a resource email 01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:41.000 me or whatever if these things 01:51:41.000 --> 01:51:43.000 come up but you have great 01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:45.000 supervision here as well so -- 01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:47.000 I hope these things come up for 01:51:47.000 --> 01:51:49.000 you to some degree in capacity 01:51:49.000 --> 01:51:50.000 because what better chance than 01:51:50.000 --> 01:51:52.000 now to kind of work through 01:51:52.000 --> 01:51:54.000 some of these things but really 01:51:54.000 --> 01:51:55.000 the the heart of what I want 01:51:55.000 --> 01:51:57.000 you to take away is it's okay 01:51:57.000 --> 01:51:59.000 to have our assumptions our 01:51:59.000 --> 01:51:62.000 feelings that we enraged by 01:52:02.000 --> 01:52:03.000 some of the things that are 01:52:03.000 --> 01:52:04.000 brought up but those can't 01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:06.000 define the relationship with 01:52:06.000 --> 01:52:08.000 the client right so how do 01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:09.000 we use that in a constructive 01:52:09.000 --> 01:52:10.000 way and that's one of the 01:52:10.000 --> 01:52:11.000 most powerful things about 01:52:11.000 --> 01:52:13.000 supervision is really coming to 01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:15.000 terms with how does this fuel 01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:17.000 my capacity to be a greater 01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:19.000 clinician versus getting stuck 01:52:19.000 --> 01:52:21.000 and then burned out and then 01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:22.000 leaving the profession because 01:52:22.000 --> 01:52:24.000 I can't handle essentially 01:52:24.000 --> 01:52:27.000 all of my stuff that is just 01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:30.000 gaslighted and set ablaze 01:52:30.000 --> 01:52:31.000 by everything else on top of 01:52:31.000 --> 01:52:34.000 that so okay go forth and prosper