WEBVTT

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thank you for having me my

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name is Steve Rohrbeck that's

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how you pronounce that my last

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name -- and I do work at

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Cascades Centers EAP which is actually the employee

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assistance program for the

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college and other institutions

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which is how I met Professor Lin

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and I wanted to thank

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you for inviting me I'm very

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honored actually I was doing

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a presentation and she just

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started talking me afterwards

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and ask me some questions about

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my professional experience and

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then she invited me to come

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so I really appreciate the

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opportunity to speak to all of

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you today I was once in your

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chairs -- and I remember the

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all of that experience -- kind

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of top to bottom the the joy

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is in -- the highs and the lows

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in the fears and all of that

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share some experience today but

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what I'd really like to do is

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answer as many questions as you

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have on about you know topics

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as they come off and so what

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I wanted to do is just start

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with that top page at all of

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your receipt is just a list of

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topics just rate them in order

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don't think about it -- don't

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don't ask yourself what would

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Carl Young do -- just go ahead

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and just number them and

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I'm going to ask you just ask

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for a vote and then we'll start

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wherever this is a presentation

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in name only it's only kind of

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a place for me to start -- and

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so they're really kind of humor

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slides to get conversations

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going online but as soon as

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we get through this I will

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talk about my professional

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past experience but want

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to make sure we got started

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and so everybody's ready

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what I'm just going to do is ask for a

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straw vote you know just to

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kind of straw poll of the

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different topics how many

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people would be interested in

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me starting with philosophy

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of counseling yeah they are

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good enough that okay yeah --

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therapist client relationship

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okay a couple folks okay

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burnout there we go okay work

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life balance which is sort of

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related okay lots of that --

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career options it sounds like

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burnout work life balance is

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really kind of the right one

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of the primary places you'd

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like to start and it will just

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kind of see where this goes

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on we may not cover everything

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it's in so on let me just talk

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about myself for a second 

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so yeah you can't get there from

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here I am from Wyoming so now

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you can all tell everybody you

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met somebody from Wyoming I

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should wear sweatshirts in the

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airports because I mean I was

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in Dulles in DC met somebody

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from Wyoming you where you

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where the flag you're run into

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your friends -- so yeah

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I was I grew up in Wyoming

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and then that's just sort

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of where my journey started

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in helping profession was

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homes with individuals with

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disabilities -- it was a

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private organization and what

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did happen in the state of

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Wyoming is that they had closed

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what they called their the

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state training school and it was

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just very Oregon has a similar

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unfortunate past with an

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with an institution that's very

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similar and I don't wanna get

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in all the history but if you

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understand any if you've talked

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about that at all it's very

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similar so we had people who

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had spent their entire lives in

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institutions -- and so that was

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the first place that day that I

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started to work with and learn

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about the helping profession

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and it was challenging it

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was wonderful it was fun I

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did that about two two and

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a half years -- and then --

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I thought I really wanted to

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start to I really like to work

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with people I wanted to start

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to pursue education and gain

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more experience specifically

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in psychology I had a friend

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she knew this and so she

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invited me to interview at a

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locked psychiatric facility in

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my hometown which is also

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private -- and so I applied

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and I accepted the position

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and I worked there for about

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four years -- and part of

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that was I was a psych tech

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on the the the employees

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that did take folks from

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place A to place B

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didn't run groups but was

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there kind of to monitor

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safety and monitor kind of

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daily process with people I'm

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that's where I really started to

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talk to the counselors about

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what they did and not just you

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know hey you're in group it was

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like no what is this you know

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what is your technique about

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what is your you know what are

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you thinking when you do this

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what is your process as you're

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going about this and I was just

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really fascinated by it I was

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really really interested in

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that so about halfway through

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a started going to school and

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then I had to transfer to

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the University of Wyoming to

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finish so there I finished

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to graduate school which is

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where you are now and I 

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continued doing that I did

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internship and practicum and

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is that about where you all are in

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the process yes yes yes --

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I remember the first time I sat

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with somebody and it was like

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ahhh yeah now what do I do

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what we Carl Young do

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what would Carl Rogers what would 

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know any Carl do -- right --

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because then it's a real person

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and then and then you then you

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start to really understand okay

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wow I'm with a real person

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and they have real stuff and

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they're looking at me like

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well what am I gonna do and

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you start to think about that

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I'm pretty I like to think a

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lot about these things when I'm

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not in the room with people I

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a day thinking about them but I

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think about what happened with

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them I think about what would

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I do you know not good or bad

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but I ask this question is

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there a different way that I

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could have asked that -- that

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was really interesting would

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happen in a session today I

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wonder think about that some

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more and and you know was there

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something was out about how

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they responded was it about

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some of the question that I

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asked right just a process and

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you know if you all can tell I

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find people really interesting

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and I hope you do too I mean that

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because you were sitting here

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I had a counselor in North

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Carolina when I worked in

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drug and alcohol treatment he

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said it is very kind of North

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Carolina way it's like 

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you know Steve were messing

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around other people's lives

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right -- and that was a very kind

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of folksy homespun way to say

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it but we we are involved with

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other people's lives and

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and so it's how we approach

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that I find that fascinating

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they they trust us to do that

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so when I was done with grad

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school my first job was at old

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school twenty eight day drug

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and alcohol treatment center

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I worked there for four years

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and it was I don't know how far

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you guys can all this it was

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twelve-step based so it's based

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on that theory and that program

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so you see things and you hear

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things -- one of the things

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of the things I was thinking

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about this on typically you

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give people who are detoxing

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off of alcohol for at least

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they did at that time librium

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so they don't have a seizure

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and die I mean very seriously

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it's to keep your heart rate

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down right because because you

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take somebody off of alcohol

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in the going to detox and --

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heart rate goes up you know it

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can be very dangerous they can going into

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go into DT's and have a seizure

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and it can get very serious so

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it was this experience of meeting

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people twice meeting them when

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I first checked in and I'd

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sit down and do an intake for

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them -- history and they were on lots

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a librium and then sometime in

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the second week they come by

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to hey Steve it's so nice to

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meet you we've met before so

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nice to meet you again but

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what I started to learn their

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ways the craft the art of doing

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this everything that you're

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learning now what does that

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look like when you're in a

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group of people what does that

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look like when you're meeting

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serious resistance and it it's

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the group has talked about

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it while you weren't in the room

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to be resistant -- or how

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do I deal with an individual

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one of the most interesting situations

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I was ever in is I I'd a person

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came in on a Friday and they

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were the angriest person I

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think I've ever met in the

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sixteen years I've been doing

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this and I left on Friday

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thinking I think this person

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might leave against medical

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advice I may not see him on

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Monday and I didn't know they

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were gone and about eighteen

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months later I saw on the news

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that this person had chose to

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get into a high speed chase

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with the police and after they

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speed strip you know they

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they did the stripe the the

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the the spike strip he ran at

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them and that ended about how

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you would think it would end if

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you run into this highway patrolman really quickly

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so I start to think about these

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things what what's happening

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with this person where they

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made the decision to come and

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they made a decision leave

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you know and then and then

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you start the process that

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and as a counselor these things

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will affect you these things

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affect you as a human being

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as they should I believe we'll

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talk a little bit more about

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that in a second so the other

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thing that I learned though was just 

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lots of really great things

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about how to work with people

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what does that really mean I

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mean we all you know you guys

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still have the Corey book

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counseling theory and practice

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yes and the the greatest hits

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ever written and they never age

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never I have a version of

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that book in my office still

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it's like version one it's

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written in Latin chinked out

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in stone but and actually I

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looked it up again I was like

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what does sitting in the office mean like talk

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to people are what one might

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do you know what do I really

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practice and so I went back and 

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I looked at Erinback and I looked at

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some other folks and was like oh yeah

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I kind of forgotten how I

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integrated these things but

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you start to integrate these

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things into your practice and

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into who you are and it's again

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it's asking questions --

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about yourself and with other

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professionals and starting to

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notice what you bump into in

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yourself when you're working

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with other people because you

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will stuff will come up and I'll

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talk about that a little later

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but so I did that for several

00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.000
years -- and it was a wonderful

00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.000
experience is invaluable

00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:50.000
experience to watch people come

00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:51.000
in and have that experience

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.000
I talked about with Librium and

00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.000
twenty days later they walked

00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.000
out and you make a decision

00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.000
to change they decide to do

00:10:59.000 --> 00:10:60.000
things differently in their

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.000
lives than they did before and

00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.000
it's amazing and it's powerful

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:08.000
one most interesting lessons

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:09.000
I learned about that while I

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.000
was there was one day I was

00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.000
talking about a client like

00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:14.000
well this client's doing so

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:15.000
well look at all that stuff

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.000
and this guy again hears some

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.000
of tis stuff and he kind of turns his head

00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.000
and now you know Steve you're

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.000
gonna get take credit for that

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.000
gentleman getting sober you

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:26.000
better get take credit for him

00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.000
he relapses that that and again

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.000
the homespun folksy lesson and

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.000
that is that I am present 

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.000
I bear witness to these people

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.000
in the process of change and

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:42.000
I can ask questions and I can

00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.000
be supportive but really I'm

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.000
like the guy in the back of

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.000
the canoe right I just paddle it

00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.000
very subtly this way and I

00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.000
paddle it very subtly that way

00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.000
and I confront when I have to

00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.000
their choice it's about their

00:11:59.000 --> 00:11:60.000
decision about what they want to

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.000
do and they have the right

00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.000
and the freedom to do that and

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.000
that's really what I learned

00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:10.000
there because you know a third

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.000
a third of the people I worked

00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:16.000
with are no longer with us

00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.000
they left they made a decision

00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.000
to use again and it killed them

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.000
and so it's about making

00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.000
peace with that internally

00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.000
as well -- and knowing that

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:30.000
and that's a boundaries thing

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.000
right now talk about that and

00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:32.000
burn out again there's there's

00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:34.000
a big serious very serious

00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.000
issue around boundaries that I think

00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:38.000
is important so after I did that

00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.000
for several years -- I made

00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.000
a decision to change tracks

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:47.000
was that my wife and I decided

00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.000
to have children and I looked

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.000
around my office at the

00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.000
that the twenty eight day drug

00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.000
and alcohol treatment center

00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:55.000
and I looked at the batting

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.000
average of married divorced kids who

00:12:59.000 --> 00:12:62.000
weren't talking to parents I'd

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:03.000
I wasn't happy with that batting

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:04.000
average and I thought about

00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:06.000
myself and I thought about the

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.000
stage I was in my life and so I

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:10.000
made the decision to make that

00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:13.000
change -- and it wasn't permanent

00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.000
it was just at this point in

00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.000
my in my path in my journey as a

00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.000
counselor I'm going to make the

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.000
decision so I can focus on this

00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.000
aspect of my personal life so

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.000
I started working at a two year

00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:29.000
school -- community college

00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:31.000
with individuals who were

00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.000
eligible for accommodations

00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:34.000
through the Americans with

00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.000
Disabilities Act for various

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.000
reasons -- and that was gratifying

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.000
in wonderful ways to because

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:46.000
when I got to do is ask people

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.000
what they what they wanted 

00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.000
to help them to be successful

00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.000
it wasn't me saying here take

00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.000
all this stuff design a well

00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:61.000
I don't know I'm just here to

00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:04.000
ask questions I'm here to find

00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.000
out what that person needs or

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.000
wants and then help them to

00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.000
get that that service for that

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.000
for that specific need filled

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.000
and that's it and I you know

00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.000
I was asked to talk a little

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.000
bit about that in more detail

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.000
I will but I guess it kind of

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:23.000
at the bottom of that is is

00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:24.000
that it's sort of my counseling

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.000
philosophy we meet people where

00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.000
they are where is the person

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.000
right now what are they what

00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.000
are they saying to me -- one

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:37.000
of the other things that people talk

00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:38.000
about at the drug and alcohol

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.000
treatment center was is that

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:41.000
sometimes all of us counselors

00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:42.000
would have something called a

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:46.000
co-dependent seizure you know I can help

00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.000
and they'd say it in that North

00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.000
Carolina way I can help I'm

00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.000
gonna help you without actually

00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:55.000
asking what they wanted

00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.000
and so I remind myself of that

00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.000
all the time and that that was

00:14:59.000 --> 00:14:61.000
also great working at colleges

00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.000
too because I also did academic

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.000
coaching which is essentially

00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.000
counseling without the inner child stuff

00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.000
to kind of parse it out

00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:12.000
it's like you're still talking

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.000
about goals and wants and needs

00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.000
and fears but it's a very it's

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.000
very focused it's just in the

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.000
academic arena we didn't talk

00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:24.000
about you know childhood issues

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.000
we didn't talk about relationships

00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:27.000
but all of the tools are the

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.000
same size it's asking questions

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.000
it's listening I remember time I had

00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:36.000
somebody in my office they were

00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:41.000
first gen student -- lots of

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.000
lots of self and self imposed

00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.000
pressure to be successful

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.000
lots of you know there'd be

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.000
a brilliant student of course

00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.000
what are they doing there third

00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.000
Thing they are an RA

00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.000
they're taking eighteen hours

00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:59.000
which includes -- genetics

00:15:59.000 --> 00:15:63.000
organic chem -- oh god

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.000
something else I can't even remember it

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.000
and then she just opened up

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.000
their schedule she's like

00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:09.000
I have no time there's a

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.000
moment where oh you don't have

00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.000
anytime oh what are we going to do -- I was really

00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.000
nervous I said I don't know

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.000
we're gonna do I don't know

00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.000
I might not find anytime in your schedule

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.000
but we opened up the schedule

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:23.000
I started asking questions

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.000
I started to ask her how she

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.000
wanted to prioritize things

00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.000
and it turned out I didn't have to have

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.000
the answer I just had to be

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:33.000
with her while she found the

00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:36.000
answer in yourself and just

00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.000
by being supportive and asking

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.000
questions she found three or

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.000
four hours she didn't even

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.000
know she had I didn't know they

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.000
were in there I had no idea but

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.000
she discovered it there's an

00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:50.000
obvious powerful lesson for me

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:53.000
even now I'm back in counseling again

00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.000
helping people to find their own

00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.000
answers right and that's a part of

00:16:59.000 --> 00:16:60.000
again you're hearing chunks of 

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.000
my counseling philosophy --

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.000
I worked there for two years

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.000
and I worked at -- Linfield

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.000
College for four doing the same

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:15.000
job I really enjoyed that --

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.000
but there's a change in the

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.000
structure of my department

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.000
about a year and a half a year

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.000
and a half ago and so I had

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.000
a friend who had worked at

00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.000
Cascades Energy EAP in the past

00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:28.000
and they said hey why don't you come

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.000
and apply for a position and I did

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:33.000
and so now I'm just back in the

00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.000
good old fashioned counseling again

00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.000
you know I see people and how an

00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.000
EAP works is that entities like

00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.000
the sisters of the State of Oregon right

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.000
because it's Western Oregon

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.000
so the organizations work with

00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.000
us and we provide services

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.000
organization they might have

00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.000
three four five some members

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.000
many is as eight free sessions as a

00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.000
benefit for the employees so

00:17:59.000 --> 00:17:61.000
they'll call us and then we

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:03.000
sit down and read your brief

00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.000
focus you know ah solution

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.000
focused therapy I'm paneled with

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:09.000
insurance companies which is a

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.000
whole other thing -- so they

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.000
can stay more long term with

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.000
me and work if they wish or

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.000
I can refer them out to long

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.000
term counselors and what I

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.000
love about this is being back

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.000
in the rooms again I'm older I

00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.000
have more experience and there

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.000
were things that I learned some

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.000
of that stuff that I learned

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.000
ten years ago fifteen years

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.000
ago that didn't quite make

00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:36.000
sense makes sense now I'm also

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:39.000
being more experienced in my

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:40.000
profession I'm more confident

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.000
in it I'm more self assured and

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.000
I'm gonna make a decision here

00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.000
and worst thing that's going

00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.000
to happen is that I'll say

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:50.000
that was wow that didn't work

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.000
let's try something else now

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.000
which is actually okay to do

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.000
by the way it is one hundred

00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.000
percent okay to say that didn't

00:18:58.000 --> 00:18:61.000
work wow that just and in fact

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.000
I try to be humorous it's --

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.000
it's Beck right you talk to

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.000
using humor absolutely now

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.000
if it fits as a whole

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.000
that's that's an important

00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.000
part of this process is this

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.000
relationship that I have with

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.000
the person in front of me

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:22.000
include humor or not if it does

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.000
I like to be funny so it's wow

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.000
that just blew up in didn't it that was

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.000
awful wow let's try right yeah

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000
and we both laughed and then

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.000
we try something else 

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.000
if it doesn't fit with that person

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.000
I don't do it -- I'll just say

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:38.000
wow it seems like I had a

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.000
very intentional therapeutical

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.000
there and I'm not sure that

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:44.000
they were getting to the space

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.000
that you want to get to in this

00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.000
so what would you suggest

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.000
same you know same idea different

00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:58.000
approach so I've been a

00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.000
licensed professional counselor

00:19:59.000 --> 00:19:60.000
in the State of Oregon since

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.000
two thousand fourteen I was I

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.000
was a professional counselor

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.000
in North Carolina from two

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.000
thousand six to two thousand

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.000
fourteen right now I have my MBCC

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.000
licensure I'm in the process of

00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:16.000
finishing my continuing education

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.000
hours to get re-certified in

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.000
January for my LPC here in the

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.000
State of Oregon I'll tell you

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.000
one story I transferred here

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.000
with the drug and alcohol

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.000
was at CA thank you level three

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.000
because I was the equivalent

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.000
Linnfield I was like one of my

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:38.000
ever going to use that again

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:42.000
do not ever ever ever give

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.000
up your licensure under any

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.000
circumstances make them pry it

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.000
from your cold dead hands

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.000
because now I have to go back

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.000
and re-test and when I called

00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.000
the guy yeah I gotta re-test and

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.000
when I called up there to the

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.000
office I said well is there

00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.000
testing manuals for the three

00:20:59.000 --> 00:20:61.000
and he's like no that's really

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:02.000
just based on professional

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.000
experience I was like oh great awesome

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.000
so just keep that in mind 

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.000
if you earn something don't give

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.000
it up so any questions about my

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:15.000
professional experience I kind

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.000
of did a glossy overview just

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.000
in a nutshell if you think about

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.000
it though I work for -- private

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.000
for profit private nonprofit

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.000
academic institutions -- and

00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.000
now I work for an EAP

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:34.000
the question was which one of

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.000
those was my favorites and 

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.000
my initial response was

00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.000
it's like picking out your

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.000
favorite child it's hard to say

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.000
what I loved about working in

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.000
a drug alcohol treatment center

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.000
was just working you know

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.000
just the work of it I can't

00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.000
explain it any other way like

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.000
when you run into people who

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.000
have denial like blocks of

00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.000
granite you know there's just

00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.000
something about that it's just

00:21:59.000 --> 00:21:61.000
chipping away and working and

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.000
chipping away and working and 

00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.000
it's a challenge and it's fun

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.000
that student that I described

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000
I love that because it was

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.000
helping people find answers

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.000
inside of themselves that they

00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.000
didn't know they had they'd

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.000
come in scared that they were

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.000
gonna fail a class and we would

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:24.000
just work together on finding

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000
that inside of themselves and

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.000
finding solutions that they

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.000
had inside of themselves --

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:31.000
I love this job because I really

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:32.000
tip my hand it's because I'm

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.000
back in the profession again

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.000
as an older more experienced

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.000
counselor and I really feel

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.000
like okay I found some footing

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.000
that was different when I was

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.000
younger in the field and I just

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.000
love it it's just as always

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:48.000
you now always kind open field

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.000
running and really working on

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.000
being present and just bearing

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.000
witness to the experience

00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:59.000
of people in front of me and

00:22:59.000 --> 00:22:61.000
there's real power in that

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.000
there's real meaning and

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.000
value in that for them and for

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:10.000
me -- so those that that's 

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.000
sort of in a nutshell -- there

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.000
were none of those jobs that I

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000
would never do again I would

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.000
do them all again thank you for

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.000
asking I really appreciate that

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.000
other other questions about

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.000
just about my own experience

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.000
okay so I understand that you all

00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.000
want to talk about burnout toast

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.000
is a food not a lifestyle

00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.000
the reason why I put that up there is

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:36.000
that I'm going to kind of start

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.000
off the jump with something I

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.000
would caution you all against

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.000
and I saw it in people that I

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.000
worked with and it always makes

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.000
me nervous if that person whose 

00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.000
kind of almost proud of their

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.000
burned-outness like I can

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:54.000
survive any of this and I'm

00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.000
just going to keep on going 

00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.000
no you're not you're just not 

00:23:59.000 --> 00:23:63.000
you have to understand yourself

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.000
you have to know what that

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.000
feels like inside of you and

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.000
so I might just ask you right

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.000
now when you're getting to

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.000
a space in grad school we're

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.000
starting to feel burned out and

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.000
I'm asking for your responses

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.000
so you get to talk how do you

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.000
know physically how do you know

00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.000
when you're getting burned out

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.000
okay you start to forget things

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.000
and that's a sign for you that

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.000
you're getting burned out okay

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:31.000
forgetfulness okay you become

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.000
more frustrated near double

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.000
you start to feel burned out

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.000
that's the sign that's one

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.000
of your first signs so somebody

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:38.000
says good morning and you say

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.000
what is that supposed to mean

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.000
something like that I'm I'm

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:43.000
being a little facetious knows

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:44.000
humor laugh at the jokes guys because

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.000
this is going to be from okay

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.000
you get emotionally blunted

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.000
you lose your compassion yeah

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.000
yeah okay we shutdown and

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:54.000
isolate okay other people

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:55.000
had their hands up who else

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.000
is yeah go ahead okay you

00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.000
start to feel physically and

00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:60.000
emotionally exhausted okay 

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.000
why are you putting your socks on wrong

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.000
do that right and then you

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.000
start to see it now burnout

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.000
is when you do that and you

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:08.000
don't see it when she searched

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.000
over book her calendar and she

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.000
knows she's busy but she 

00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.000
she keeps on doing it she's a

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.000
person that enjoys herself and

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.000
enjoys her life and that she

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.000
knows that she's getting to

00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.000
burnout when she's unpleasant

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.000
to be around and it's very

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.000
obvious to other people okay

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.000
she said she's indifferent and

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.000
she loses her filter this

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.000
person said that they start eat

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.000
junk food or things aren't

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.000
healthy for them and that

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.000
that's a warning sign after

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.000
several days of doing that

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.000
that they know that they're

00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:40.000
starting to get to a place of

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:45.000
burnout okay so there are a

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.000
couple of things with this the

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.000
first one to remember is this

00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.000
is that if you do it now you

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:53.000
will do it when you're out in the

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.000
professional lives it does not

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:58.000
change so it's important to

00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:61.000
note these symptoms now let me

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.000
share let me share mine with

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.000
you when I said that the judge

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:05.000
a twenty eight day treatment

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.000
center in my first job I hit

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:08.000
the ground running you know I

00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:10.000
really worked in a locked site you know

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:11.000
locked sites by the way you're

00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.000
really used to stopping at doors

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:15.000
even if they're not locked like

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.000
I'm at Target and I stop at the door

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:19.000
my buddies are like no really

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:20.000
this one doesn't need a key let's

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.000
just go on in but -- because

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.000
they have big magnets on the

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:25.000
doors you have to unlock them

00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:32.000
this job is like well I know

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:33.000
myself and I'm going to be

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.000
just fine I'm gonna hit the ground

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:36.000
running and I'm not gonna make

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.000
any of these mistakes and get

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.000
burned out except I forgot one

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.000
thing that after about four

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.000
months I probably needed to take

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.000
a vacation day but how that

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000
started to play out for me was is

00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.000
I just started to get grumpy

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:52.000
like little things started to

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:55.000
really make me angry the just

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.000
two weeks ago hadn't bothered

00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.000
me at all three weeks ago or

00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:61.000
that I couldn't focus I was

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:02.000
supposed to be typing notes

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.000
in my office and I was just

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:05.000
sitting there thinking I don't

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.000
know how I'm going to finish all this

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.000
all of a sudden I just it just

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.000
from nowhere came to my head

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.000
oh wait I've been here for six

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.000
months and I am taking a day

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.000
off that might be a really good

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:21.000
idea so I did we'll talk about

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:24.000
what to do on a day off --

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.000
later but and then it was okay

00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.000
I just kind of jump back in a

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.000
and said oh okay so I had a chance

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.000
to take a deep breath so these

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.000
things that you're describing

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.000
you already know what your

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:38.000
burnout symptoms are the cool

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.000
part and the responsibility

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.000
part is to note that when

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.000
they're starting to happen

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.000
and then do something about

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.000
it okay we talk about this

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.000
all the time in our profession

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.000
you now it was mentioned in the

00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:54.000
beginning you know when we talk

00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.000
about self care and that's I'm

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:56.000
not I'm not a big fan of that

00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.000
expression by the way but it's

00:27:59.000 --> 00:27:61.000
just it's just doing stuff

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.000
you like how about that

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:04.000
I'm a big fan of doing stuff

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000
you like because you want

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.000
to do it and there's something really

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.000
powerful in this you're gonna

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.000
run into a moment when you're

00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:16.000
going to be talking to a client

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.000
about treating themselves

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.000
with dignity and respect

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:27.000
ask yourself the same question

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.000
do you treat yourself with

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.000
the dignity and respect

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:37.000
that says I need to stop

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.000
yes or no -- and so that's

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:41.000
an interesting question to

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.000
start asking yourself because

00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:46.000
if we if we are encouraging

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.000
the people that we work with

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.000
to treat themselves that way

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.000
we should treat ourselves that

00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:55.000
way if for no other reason

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.000
than it's well I have some

00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:61.000
experience with this yeah

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:02.000
and you don't make the

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.000
session about you but when

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.000
you think that you know it's

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.000
happens I'll start to talk about

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:08.000
your what would you like to

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.000
do and I'll start thinking

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:13.000
about what I like to do

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:14.000
and that comes out and when I

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.000
talk about it right there's a

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.000
genuineness wow I'm

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:18.000
thinking about the stuff that

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.000
I really like to do and they're

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:20.000
telling me this and then we're

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:23.000
doing therapeutic alliance and

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:24.000
this energy kinda starts to build

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.000
I take pictures and some of

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:30.000
them are in my office and say yeah I

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.000
you know and so this energy

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:33.000
starts to kind of flow because

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.000
I have experience for taking

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:38.000
care of myself it's not on page

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.000
three hundred sixty two in the

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:42.000
Corey book hey Corey says I need to

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.000
do this this is nice -- so that's

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.000
the thing to start thinking

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.000
for yourselves and there is a

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.000
there is an activity here that

00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:55.000
I did I did that -- there's

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.000
actually two parts -- and I

00:29:59.000 --> 00:29:62.000
was yes that was long no it's

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:03.000
just one part it's the hobbies

00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.000
and interests we're going to

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:06.000
do is get that page out right

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.000
now and I want you to list some

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.000
you will not be judged later

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.000
on your hobbies and interests

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.000
so once you get done writing

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.000
your hobbies and interests

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.000
down I didn't put a spot

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:22.000
for it because I didn't want to

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.000
tip my hand I want to to on

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.000
the right side there put

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.000
the last time you did it

00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:32.000
think about that

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.000
what unintentionally may

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.000
be happening there is that

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.000
we're giving ourselves

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.000
inside into when was

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.000
the last time we stopped

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.000
and really did something

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.000
it had meaning and value

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:54.000
for us that nourished us

00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.000
it might be really useful to ask why

00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.000
and that's one to answer

00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000
in this room I wouldn't

00:30:59.000 --> 00:30:62.000
do that all of you -- because

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.000
I was asked that question in a

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.000
classroom and I was in my early

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.000
thirties in grad school I was like I'm not

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:10.000
gonna answer that but -- that's something 

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.000
to start thinking about because

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:15.000
if you're doing it now you'll

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.000
do it when you're professional

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.000
but the good news is is that

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:21.000
you can do the opposite right

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.000
my favorite Seinfeld episode

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:27.000
the whole episode and all

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.000
these good things happen so

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.000
it's the same for us we start

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:37.000
to make time for ourselves for

00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000
the same reason that I talked

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.000
about before if I'm sitting in a

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:41.000
room with somebody and they're

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.000
all burned out and I'm talking

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.000
about this and it has meaning

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.000
and value and you know you

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.000
you have self free agency in

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.000
your life and you can decide

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.000
and let's talk about when you

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.000
can make time in your what

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:51.000
would that look like for you

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.000
all that kind of good stuff

00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.000
should I be doing that for

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:58.000
myself she asked how do you

00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:60.000
combat the struggle with 

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.000
as a millennial struggle of

00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:06.000
calling into work sick so I

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.000
struggle with the same thing

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.000
within our profession that

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.000
is a universal struggle so

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.000
first of all be comforted

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:16.000
in the idea that you're not

00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.000
alone in that -- also be aware

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.000
that that's not the healthiest

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.000
drive what we're telling

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.000
ourselves unintentionally

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.000
is that the needs of

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.000
others come before our own

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.000
I'm I'm not gonna get into

00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.000
that the grinding out details

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.000
in my professional life of

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000
moments when I've been at

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.000
that juncture but what I will

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:41.000
tell you in a broad sense is

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.000
is that when I pick I'm sick

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:45.000
and I need to take a day off

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.000
because I'm sick and I get

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.000
better it is always a healthier

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.000
choice for me than well my boss

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:59.000
would be mad so I better go

00:32:59.000 --> 00:32:60.000
you're talking also about

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.000
a very important boundary

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:02.000
issue and I don't think we

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.000
talk about this a lot it goes

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.000
back to that that old crusty

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.000
counselor I talked about at the

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.000
very beginning you know --

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:14.000
you know I'll just figure it out

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.000
and I'm gonna get through and

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.000
I once saw 80 people in a week good

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:19.000
for you -- do you remember any of it

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.000
but but so there's that part

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:24.000
of it is they want to deflect

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.000
our own feelings by wearing

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.000
that persona right that I can

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.000
handle this all by myself and I

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:33.000
don't need help around the day

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.000
off work this fear that you're

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.000
talking about for me that

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.000
manifests in things around you know

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:41.000
things that I need to work on

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:43.000
inside of myself in it's the usual

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:46.000
suspects right shame guilt

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.000
a little codependency sprinkling

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.000
there for fun you know just 

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.000
what is my boundary

00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000
and so that's another great

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000
place to start with burnout

00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.000
it's starting to ask yourselves now

00:33:59.000 --> 00:33:63.000
where do I end and other

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.000
people begin in my counseling

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:08.000
profession and we can't leave

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.000
that to our supervisors or

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.000
coworkers to decide for us

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.000
because they will not decide in

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.000
our best interests why because

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:17.000
it's our best interests are

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.000
not their best interests even

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.000
if they're great supervisors

00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.000
or great coworkers it's not

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:26.000
our job to decide that for us

00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:31.000
year old daughter and seven

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:33.000
sorry she would be very offended

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.000
seven year old daughter and

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000
she got sick about five days

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.000
later I got sick well I got

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000
sick and then a week later I

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000
taken a PTO day off and for

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.000
about ten minutes I was like

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.000
oh my god what are they all

00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:48.000
going to think they don't

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.000
think I'm really sick they

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.000
think I'm faking it and I'm

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.000
then I had to take this PTO and ahh

00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:58.000
right we're all gonna die --

00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.000
was I comfortable was I

00:34:59.000 --> 00:34:60.000
comfortable with the decision

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.000
making there yeah I was

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.000
really sick it was better

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.000
that I was not in the office

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.000
I had scheduled that day off

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.000
for myself months in advance

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.000
so it's okay and people get to

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.000
think and feel about that

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.000
whatever they're gonna think

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.000
and feel you also kind of

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
touched on a subtle thing

00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.000
what does thirteen counselors

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:28.000
in a room look like when

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.000
you're at a staff meeting

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:30.000
I mean I don't mean like

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.000
here I mean like you're in a

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.000
staff meeting and there are

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.000
thirteen counselors in there

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.000
just sort of let the analyzing

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.000
begin and so everybody has

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.000
an opinion yeah often times

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.000
everybody has an opinion

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.000
everybody will have a thought

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.000
but are you okay with your

00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.000
decision making and you have

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:51.000
to be okay I can't tell you

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:52.000
what's right or wrong I mean

00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:53.000
I have my own moral compass I

00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:54.000
have my own ethical decision

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.000
making process if I can check

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.000
all those boxes yes yes yes

00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:61.000
yes yes okay if my boss has

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.000
a problem they can avail my

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.000
they can avail themselves

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:05.000
of the process of calling me

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:08.000
in and having a conversation

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:09.000
and so that's that's what I

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.000
would suggest is that does that

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.000
make sense is that okay okay

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.000
because we never talk about

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.000
it we never talk about how to

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:21.000
navigate these things -- other

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.000
questions about along what

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:24.000
she asked or just other kinds

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:25.000
of questions she asked how people

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:27.000
view me as a person-centered

00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:28.000
counselor you mean coworkers

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:33.000
or clients I have no idea

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:37.000
because I don't ask them

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.000
about before about kind of

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.000
getting under me getting

00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:45.000
my feet underneath me getting

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.000
planted it's like this is my

00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:48.000
philosophy yeah you heard it

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.000
I mean I tip my hand -- so

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.000
that's what I'm comfortable

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.000
with that's who I am and so my

00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.000
counseling theories and natural

00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:60.000
extension of Steve -- I'm 

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.000
I'm being presenter

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:05.000
Steve but counselor Steve is

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.000
fairly similar yeah I like to

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.000
be relaxed I like to I like to

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000
to not make inappropriate humor

00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:13.000
but when it fits you make jokes

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.000
and and and try to win win

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.000
when there's humor it seems

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000
to work in there I

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.000
also like to be very serious

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:21.000
and talk you know talk about

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.000
what our goals and how we want

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.000
to do things I like it to be

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:26.000
relaxed because people are

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:31.000
coming in under duress and so

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.000
doesn't help for me to be like

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.000
what do you want to talk about today you know 

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.000
like being stressed out because

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:38.000
it comes off you in waves and

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.000
they feel it it's also a little

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:42.000
unnerving to be under under

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.000
duress and have your counselor

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.000
be more nervous than you but

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.000
but I thought when I was a

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:51.000
younger counselor I was very

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.000
concerned about that if I go

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.000
back in time and change that I

00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:60.000
would you are who you are trust

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.000
your guts trust your intuition

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.000
it's okay to make mistakes

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.000
it's okay I was that was not

00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:13.000
the messaging I necessarily

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.000
received you will make a mistake

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.000
with the person and then you

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:18.000
get to be a human being and

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:21.000
go back and repair that --

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:25.000
we deal with very serious

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:26.000
things in our profession I

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:27.000
mentioned before probably a third

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.000
of the clients that I worked with

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.000
drug and alcohol treatment are

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:32.000
dead because they OD

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:33.000
or they wrap their car

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.000
around a tree where

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:38.000
they shot too much dope

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.000
that's what we do but I would

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000
also say that very rarely if

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:46.000
I'm an ethical practice could

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.000
I take if I am an ethical

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.000
practice and I'm being very

00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.000
professional on my work but

00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:55.000
there is not much I can do

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:56.000
to break another human right

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.000
to trigger or cause

00:38:59.000 --> 00:38:60.000
a person to make a very

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:03.000
serious life decisions and I want to

00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.000
be careful about how I say that

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.000
but get very careful about

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.000
how you say things -- but I

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.000
I feel that way I didn't

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:15.000
it's you know I feel like if

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.000
somebody is struggling with

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.000
the question of suicide they

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:20.000
entered my office with that

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.000
question if I handle that question

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.000
professionally and responsibly

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.000
and they make a decision

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.000
it's tragic and horrible

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:36.000
but but the other thing about

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.000
that is that I can't go back

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:39.000
and I can ask other people

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.000
to tell me if I was right or

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:43.000
wrong I can't spend my time

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.000
in a door frame of an office

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.000
asking people to kind of

00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.000
support me there are times when

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:54.000
I need support there are times

00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.000
when I'm struggling or have

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:57.000
questions or or had emotionally

00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.000
tough thing happen in the

00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:61.000
office you know I had had so

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:05.000
I've had people the very first 

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.000
late night crisis call ever

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:08.000
took at that -- ah locked

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.000
site center was a woman in her

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.000
garage with the door down with

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.000
the engine on and she's talking

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:20.000
on the phone yeah ahh and

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.000
this -- this is my second day

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.000
ahh turn the car off -- and so

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.000
so it was be present work with

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.000
this person work with this person

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.000
be present be present

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:37.000
be present and then I went

00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.000
back and I talked to them I

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.000
talk to professionals about

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.000
what happened and how I was

00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:46.000
feeling but at some point

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:48.000
we have we work on trusting

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
ourselves and believing in

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.000
this thing in here and that's

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.000
how I think of it like

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:56.000
I can't I wish I could ahh

00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.000
because I'm person-centered and I care

00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.000
about your feelings and all

00:40:59.000 --> 00:40:60.000
that other kind of stuff

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.000
I'm not a I'm not Beck

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.000
I can't like quantify well

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.000
you know it's A B and C

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.000
but it's a sense inside of me

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:13.000
it's like I'm present with these

00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.000
people we're in the canoe

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.000
I'm in the back I'm making

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.000
decisions that are useful and

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:20.000
we're just going to keep moving

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.000
forward in this process and

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.000
to the best of my ability in

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:26.000
the moment I believe what I

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.000
am doing is is ethical and the

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:33.000
best way to move forward -- and

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:34.000
I would suggest a for all of you

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.000
you can save yourself some

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:40.000
time that I wish I had back

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:43.000
around self doubt around you

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:44.000
know going to going to other

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.000
professionals or I'm in a 

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.000
treatment team meeting and somebody

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.000
says something and I think well why

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.000
didn't I think of that because I'm

00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:55.000
not them it's just that simple

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:58.000
I'm just not them and so this

00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:60.000
this as soon as I really started

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:03.000
to have to trust this thing

00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.000
and trust myself that's when

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:07.000
stuff really started to happen

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.000
you know when Carl Rogers talks

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:12.000
about genuineness he came out

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:13.000
of an era when there was like 

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:15.000
all that I mean like stereotype

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Freudian like you know like sitting

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.000
on your own when you're on

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:20.000
the couch and how long have

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.000
you lost your Mother so

00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:24.000
he was talking about genuineness

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.000
just being in a room right

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.000
but for us fifty or sixty

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:30.000
years after that revolution

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.000
started genuineness is trusting

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:38.000
ourselves being ourselves

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.000
because in the end that's what

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.000
they want they want somebody

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:42.000
sitting with them listening

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.000
to them and being present

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.000
and being genuine now that's

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.000
counselor Steve genuine that's

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:50.000
not Steve Steve Steve Steve is

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.000
who my wife and my daughter get

00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.000
but there is this person is

00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.000
counselor Steve that they get

00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.000
and they get a hundred percent

00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:62.000
of that while I'm there that's

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:03.000
the other trick and I hope

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:05.000
you guys don't mind I'm just sort of

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.000
when I get in the car 

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.000
the meter stops right and I don't

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.000
mean that like an insensitive

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.000
way these people are going

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:16.000
through horrible terrible things

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.000
in their lives sometimes things

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.000
that I don't want to repeat

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:22.000
because they are the worse

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.000
kinds of things you can imagine

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.000
but then I have a life

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:29.000
and again it goes back to

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.000
giving them value and respect

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.000
I'm I as professional

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.000
go in an office and I spend

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:37.000
eight hours ten hours a day

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:38.000
working with these people

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.000
and I show them I show

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:42.000
them respect and by being

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.000
by listening to them truly

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:47.000
genuinely listening to them

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:48.000
doesn't my family

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.000
deserve the same thing

00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.000
don't they have the right

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:57.000
to have me as well so on

00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:60.000
the car ride home I unzip

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:02.000
to Steve counselor suit put

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.000
it in the back of the car

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.000
and I become Dad I intentionally

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.000
try to do something goofy and

00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:11.000
funny with my daughter who

00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:13.000
has no idea what happens out

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:16.000
there in the world sometimes none nor

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.000
should she because she's seven

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.000
nor should I take that home

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:24.000
because she's seven and for her

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.000
it like begins and ends with

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:30.000
the Muppets as it should and

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.000
my wife who she has she has

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.000
a master's degree in applied

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:37.000
economics so you can imagine

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.000
how interesting yeah person-

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.000
centered I care about your

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:43.000
feelings and applied economics

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.000
and she does phone volume she

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.000
measures phone volume for large

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:48.000
multinational corporations like

00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:49.000
they have phone centers where

00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.000
people call in that's what she

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.000
does so our conversations are

00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.000
very interesting at times it's

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.000
like when when she was a grad

00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:58.000
school I got out her math book

00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:62.000
she's honestly this is this is

00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:04.000
like a partial number what if

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:05.000
what if I wanted to be a whole

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.000
number and his parents made him

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:08.000
be a partial number and what

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.000
did he want she's like shut up

00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:14.000
just stop I don't want to hear that so there's

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.000
that life that I have with her too

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.000
that's important and it's not

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.000
more important than my

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.000
job is not more important than

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:29.000
her ever it's when I'm there

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.000
at the job it's what I'm doing

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:33.000
and what I find is that when I

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:35.000
have very clear boundaries in

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.000
my own mind when I walk in the

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.000
door I'm sure to do this and I

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.000
find people fascinating and I can't

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.000
wait to hear it what's going to

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:44.000
happen in my office today and

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.000
I've had profound experiences

00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:54.000
as a person-centered counselor

00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.000
and when I do that I'll go

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:56.000
ahead go ahead you had your

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:59.000
hand up so what she asked

00:45:59.000 --> 00:45:60.000
about is and which she talked

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.000
about his her own professional

00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.000
experience with -- kind of

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:08.000
very traumatic situations and

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.000
that the from her own professional

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.000
experiences she listed several

00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:13.000
ways like sitting in the car

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.000
and processing feelings to

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.000
to deal with that those traumatic

00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:18.000
situations and then said

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.000
sometimes you couldn't turn

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:21.000
it off and so she was she also

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.000
asked at the beginning at what

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.000
point do you get to the stage

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:28.000
and I'm kind of talking about

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:33.000
you're not -- practice and

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:37.000
time and there's also there

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:40.000
are there are times when I

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:43.000
will go talk to a professional

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:46.000
and I can't stress that enough

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.000
that there are things that

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:50.000
are given to us as a part of

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:52.000
our practice that we should

00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:58.000
not carry -- it's too toxic

00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:61.000
radioactive whatever you know I

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.000
I've heard stories about sexual

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:07.000
abuse that are just really

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.000
horrific we should not carry

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.000
that not because we don't care

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.000
but because we do care we care

00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.000
about ourselves and so what you 

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:18.000
you suggested about sitting in

00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:19.000
the car that's what I'm doing

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:22.000
I do I drive home and say I

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.000
didn't talk to myself on the

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.000
way home I just you know I

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.000
do that sometimes I process

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:32.000
things out I I as a personal

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:35.000
commitment meditate every day

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.000
before I walk in the door -- I am

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:43.000
at the beginning of starting

00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:44.000
really moving into Buddhist

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:48.000
practices for myself so how

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.000
can I practice detachment from

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:52.000
self and from expect I don't

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.000
get too far into that you all but

00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:55.000
but just from a counseling

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:56.000
point right what did I just

00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:58.000
say I just said you know we

00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:61.000
have professional detachment

00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.000
right we we remove expectation

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.000
of what's gonna happen with

00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:07.000
our clients I mean it's Carl

00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:09.000
Rogers and it's Buddhism --

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.000
it's funny how that works so it's

00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:15.000
difficult it really is and I

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.000
what I will say is that I have

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:21.000
had the same struggles and in

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:23.000
the end for me professionally

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:27.000
and personally I had to start

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.000
drawing some firm boundaries

00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:31.000
around myself I've also done

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.000
a lot of work with another

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.000
counseling professional and

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.000
I'm not afraid to say that so I

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.000
went into an office where they had

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:40.000
pretty flower pictures up and

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:41.000
I stared behind the shoulder

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:42.000
and I said this is what I'm

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:46.000
experiencing and I don't know why

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:48.000
I think again not because

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:51.000
your teacher suggested --

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:57.000
but because we have stuff

00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:58.000
that actually kind of leads

00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:59.000
into another assignment that

00:48:59.000 --> 00:48:62.000
there is -- I'll talk about it

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:05.000
on we have stuff we wouldn't

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.000
be human if we didn't it will

00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:09.000
get bumped into when you work

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:12.000
with people it just does

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:13.000
is your person now because

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.000
you're not doing it right now

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:16.000
because you're not practicing

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.000
this theory well enough now because

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:19.000
you're not a good counselor

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:21.000
it's because you're human and

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:23.000
someone will share a story

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:24.000
and then it will go ding with something

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.000
in your own life in your own

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.000
past okay a bell went off now

00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:32.000
what do I do I put it over

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:34.000
here because the session is

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.000
about this person I'm aware

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.000
that it happened I'm going to stay

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:39.000
focused I know I got the stuff

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.000
going on background but what are

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.000
they doing what's going on

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.000
with them in the ten minutes

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:48.000
between sessions I go stand

00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:49.000
in the bathroom and you know

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:50.000
and do what I have to do and

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.000
I and then I go talk to my guy

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.000
or my woman and say this is what's

00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:57.000
going on with me I want to talk

00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:60.000
about it let's work on it so

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.000
I can move past it as a person

00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.000
so it so it doesn't interrupt

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.000
the work that I'm doing so

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:07.000
never confused about what's

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:09.000
happening in the room remember

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:10.000
the first time that somebody

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:12.000
exposed to me they had been

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:13.000
sexually abused at a drug and

00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:14.000
alcohol treatment center and

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.000
it was just kind of from --

00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:19.000
by the way from about age six

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:20.000
to seventeen I was sexually

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.000
abused by somebody and we're

00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:26.000
talking about their drinking

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.000
it will happen I had a powerful

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.000
response to that as one

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.000
should because that breaks a lot

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:37.000
of boundaries -- and so it's

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:41.000
practice it's time it's work

00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:43.000
it's learning about how things

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:46.000
affect you and accepting that

00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:50.000
embracing that -- that this is

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.000
who I am this is how I respond

00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:55.000
with these things so it's not

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:58.000
scary when it happens it's just

00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:60.000
this is happening to me I have

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.000
a professional responsibility

00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.000
I'm going to mark it I'm gonna be even

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:04.000
more focused on what's going

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.000
on and I'm gonna keep going

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.000
that's a great question and

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:10.000
I and I and I know that it's

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.000
a complicated end I mean it's

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.000
a complicated thing and that

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.000
my answer does not answer the

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:18.000
question it's more of an ex 

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.000
it's an explanation of my path

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.000
through it on I think that's

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:24.000
the best thing that I can

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:28.000
provide for you all there isn't

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.000
a path if you do A, B and C

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:34.000
then this will happen real life

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.000
happens and people have horrible

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.000
things happen in their lives

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:43.000
you know another one other thing

00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:44.000
I've also tried to make it

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:48.000
very clear about responsibility

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.000
what am I responsible for

00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.000
in this person's life how

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:57.000
long have I known them

00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:60.000
most people I've known four hours

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.000
three hours how much of that

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.000
represents the sum total of

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.000
their life if they walk in

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:12.000
my door when they're fifty

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.000
so that's the amount of

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.000
responsibility I have for their

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.000
choices for their experience

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:22.000
and so should I take on more

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.000
than right should I carry

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:26.000
twenty years of their lives on

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:30.000
my back mmhm I'm responsible

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:31.000
for them right here right now

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.000
what are we talking about what

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.000
are we going through -- what are

00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.000
they experiencing how can I

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:41.000
support that on so that's those

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.000
are just suggestions it is

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.000
trial and error and practice

00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.000
thank you so much for asking that

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:49.000
are really appreciate it that's

00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:51.000
the question I wish people

00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.000
would always ask because that's

00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.000
a real life very here's what you're

00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:56.000
going to run into in the counseling

00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:58.000
world kind of question

00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:59.000
other questions about burn out

00:52:59.000 --> 00:52:63.000
and those kinds of things

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:07.000
because that's really the

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.000
other half of this is work life

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:13.000
balance a life in the balance

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:14.000
this is how this will feel from

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:16.000
time to time I said you know I

00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:18.000
I unzip that suit and I go home

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:19.000
and this is a life wonderful

00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:20.000
and you know it's also easy

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.000
and it's a seamless it is not

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:27.000
it is not balance is exactly

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:28.000
that right you stand on one leg

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:31.000
and do that for a while the

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:33.000
thing I want to talk about that

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:34.000
then is it goes back to the

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:38.000
list of hobbies and interests

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:41.000
what is valuable to you 

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:45.000
to you not professionally you 

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.000
not you know even parent you

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:55.000
or daughter or son you but you

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.000
and why

00:53:59.000 --> 00:53:63.000
and being that person

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:08.000
with people like I re-read

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.000
most of -- Irving Yalom's book

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:12.000
A Gift of Therapy he wrote

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:13.000
this like twenty years ago I

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:16.000
recommend it -- take what you want

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:17.000
and leave the rest but it's just

00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:19.000
these little snippets he begins

00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:21.000
by saying my because he was

00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.000
old when he wrote this twenty years ago

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:25.000
all worried that I'm going to

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:27.000
die that literally like almost

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:28.000
the first line in the book

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:30.000
and so he starts to talk about

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.000
therapeutic relationship and

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:33.000
it's all these little snippets

00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:34.000
of things that he talks about and he

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.000
talks about balance -- and he

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:38.000
said some interesting things

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.000
that I started to reflect on

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:41.000
in myself which is why I'm

00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:42.000
glad I came and did this I got

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.000
to kind of do that again on

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.000
which is do I think about

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.000
these people when I'm 

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.000
you know I work with when you're

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:53.000
not there and I'm at home

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.000
and what's that balance look like

00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:57.000
I touched on it before

00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:62.000
think about that like

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:03.000
I think about them

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:08.000
in the sense of

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.000
that was very sad what happened

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:13.000
and I reflect on my own

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.000
feelings about it as it was

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.000
happening in real time right

00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:21.000
when I was with them I don't

00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:22.000
and this is my personal

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:23.000
practice I have to be very

00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:26.000
careful about you know I can

00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:27.000
contemplate the nature of

00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:28.000
the nature of the nature of

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:31.000
the universe so I have to be very

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:33.000
careful about yeah the made me

00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:37.000
feel sad period in the sense

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:42.000
this is what I experienced

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:48.000
and I wonder what we can do

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:51.000
in the next session

00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:52.000
the kind of work on some

00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.000
things and then that leaves me to 

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.000
get Yalom's book out again

00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:59.000
or maybe something else or

00:55:59.000 --> 00:55:60.000
I think about another client

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.000
from the past and there was a tool

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:05.000
that I used that was useful

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:07.000
so that's how I find the balance

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.000
I note what I experienced

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:13.000
and then I let it go

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.000
in our daily lives right like

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:18.000
you know we have a room we

00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:19.000
remember something from high

00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:20.000
school oh god I can't believe

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:23.000
it okay what's what's for

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:26.000
breakfast so with the tools we

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:30.000
already have so we find this

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.000
balance how I find balance

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:32.000
I'll talk to you about some

00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:33.000
of the things that I actually

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:35.000
do in my life I mentioned

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:36.000
some of them with my daughter

00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.000
I am very intentionally

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:45.000
go to her level --

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.000
my daughter also -- she

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.000
processes the world in

00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:54.000
a very unique way I'll

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:59.000
put it like and so --

00:56:59.000 --> 00:56:61.000
we have had a journey my wife

00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:05.000
my daughter and I through navigating

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:06.000
how she processes information

00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.000
world she's not a big fan I

00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:10.000
give you a bunch of clues I'm

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:11.000
just gonna say it out loud

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:14.000
not a big fan of of sounds

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.000
not a big fan of making eye

00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.000
contact most of you know where I'm going 

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:21.000
no less okay okay -- so

00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:23.000
we just when I go home it's

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:27.000
how does she see the world

00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:30.000
and so I practice being with

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.000
her and I practice and it is

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:35.000
practice for his practice

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:38.000
being with another person --

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.000
and then how did I do today yeah

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:43.000
because sometimes I get tired

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:44.000
sometimes she puts her socks

00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.000
on wrong right but what are you doing

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:48.000
you're putting this no Jerry

00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:53.000
Seinfeld what are you doing  -- so

00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:55.000
it's so it's that so I practice

00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:59.000
being present with them

00:57:59.000 --> 00:57:60.000
so I'm not present these things

00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.000
that I don't want to carry

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:04.000
around I mentioned before I

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.000
do photography I also this

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:08.000
this popped into my head when

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:10.000
you were talking a really great

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:11.000
question there are times when

00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:16.000
I go out I don't take a picture

00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:17.000
three times I go in I sit and

00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:18.000
watch the sunset and the camera

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:22.000
bag sits next to me -- what

00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:23.000
I've discovered is that nature

00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:25.000
has real power it has

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:28.000
real force I will not even

00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:31.000
begin to try to explain to you all

00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:33.000
think all of us have something

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:34.000
like that for me it's nature

00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:35.000
doesn't have to be nature it's

00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:38.000
what it is for you -- for me

00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:40.000
that allows me to get outside

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:41.000
of me if for no other reason

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:44.000
than I cannot hold on to the

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:47.000
idea of big powerful important

00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.000
Steve in the midst of all this

00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.000
going on around me that seems

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:56.000
to work without me just fine

00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:59.000
it's humbling it's powerful

00:58:59.000 --> 00:58:60.000
you know I do this important

00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:01.000
work for these people right

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:03.000
creating I'm not all powerful

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:05.000
laws and all knowing and all

00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:07.000
that stuff and the waterfall runs

00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:10.000
just fine without me I was in

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:12.000
Yellowstone I used to that's where

00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:13.000
I met my wife actually lived in

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.000
Yellowstone National Park we

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:16.000
went on this hiking trip out

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.000
in the middle of no where

00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:20.000
I think about this story

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.000
sometimes to help me with balance

00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:23.000
we're out in the middle of nowhere

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:25.000
and they're just steam vents

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:26.000
everywhere I mean not every

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:27.000
everything that you see in

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.000
the park is a thermal features

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:30.000
it I mean they're just it's

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:32.000
a big volcano so they're kind

00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:33.000
of all over the place and I was

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:36.000
more than ten miles from the road

00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:37.000
there are sulfur pits around

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:40.000
this steam vent and the buffalo

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:41.000
love to go crawl in them because they

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.000
get they get lice and they roll

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.000
back and forth and I because

00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:47.000
he has a hump you can never

00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:51.000
get square right so it's like

00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:55.000
and he rolls up bump

00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:58.000
and you can here him go ahh

00:59:58.000 --> 00:59:60.000
you know it's this powerful thing well

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.000
the vents on the trail the

01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:04.000
buffaloes on the trail so we're

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.000
going around you don't yeah you

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:08.000
don't go up to buffalo excuse me

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:10.000
my good Sir would you please

01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.000
you now but he's just just going

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:14.000
away rolling back and forth

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:17.000
happy as a clam I had no idea

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:19.000
we were there had never seen

01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:23.000
another human being in his whole life

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:26.000
didn't know we existed

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:29.000
seemed to get along just fine that's

01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.000
what I draw from nature is

01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:34.000
that idea of my space my place

01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.000
in the larger world whatever that is

01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:39.000
you and baseball and 

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.000
because I want to go

01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:48.000
ahead yeah she asked about the

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.000
idea that the profession that

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.000
she's going to go into is more

01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.000
and less psych and that there

01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:57.000
are there tends to be more

01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:59.000
paperwork and more deadlines

01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.000
home this is a really important

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:09.000
thing around boundaries and

01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:10.000
I say this having set this

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000
boundary knowing what might

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:15.000
come back and having had this

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:20.000
come back we are there when

01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:23.000
we're paid to be there we do

01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:24.000
everything that we can do while

01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:29.000
we're there and then we go home

01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:31.000
what I saw in drug and

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:36.000
alcohol counsellors and --

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:38.000
and the people who worked in

01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:41.000
the ahh services offices

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:43.000
at the colleges I work at

01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:44.000
and people working group

01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:45.000
homes said that if they didn't

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.000
have boundaries like that

01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:51.000
burnt piece of toast and

01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.000
what I'm gonna tell you all

01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:54.000
this is my experience room

01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.000
burn out and ethical decision

01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:59.000
making you all kind of said it

01:01:59.000 --> 01:01:60.000
your ability to make ethical

01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:02.000
decisions goes way down more

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.000
tired you get so mistakes

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:10.000
happen not useful things happen

01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:12.000
so it's a decision my my

01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.000
experience too is is that if

01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:17.000
I if I get prepared for my

01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:19.000
day and I stay focused on the

01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:20.000
things I need to be working

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.000
on that they tend to go faster

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:26.000
it doesn't mean you're gonna

01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:29.000
get to everything in a day

01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:31.000
but there is expectation and

01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:34.000
there is reality I've had to

01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:36.000
make those decisions I've

01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:39.000
had to say to people you

01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.000
give me x amount of time in a day

01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:44.000
I do y number of these in an hour

01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:45.000
can you help me to

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:51.000
understand how to do more

01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.000
I would love to hear that so

01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:56.000
please help me with that is

01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:57.000
there something that I can

01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:58.000
be is there something that

01:02:58.000 --> 01:02:59.000
I'm doing in this form that I

01:02:59.000 --> 01:02:60.000
don't necessarily need to do

01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.000
so I can speed up the process

01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:08.000
if the answer comes back no

01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:10.000
then I've typically gone

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:11.000
back and said well I'm

01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:12.000
doing this as efficiently

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:17.000
and as quickly as I can

01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:20.000
they may not like that answer

01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.000
that when people push too hard

01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.000
is when we start to talk about

01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:33.000
licenses we start to talk

01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:37.000
about really not useful ethical

01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:38.000
decision making processes that

01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:44.000
occur destroyed paperwork this

01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:45.000
is where that kind of stuff

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:47.000
that's where we get in this

01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:49.000
and so I understand I

01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:52.000
know I have lived the pressure

01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:53.000
I have made decisions that

01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:57.000
are best for me -- I that also

01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:59.000
circles back and I don't want to get to

01:03:59.000 --> 01:03:61.000
frank about it but you heard

01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:05.000
my career I make decisions

01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.000
there were useful and best

01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:11.000
for me at the time about where

01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:13.000
I was going to work and why

01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.000
and that wasn't because that

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:17.000
wasn't about what was best

01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.000
for the institutional reform

01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.000
or for my boss or for my

01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:27.000
co-workers it was best for me

01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.000
so I can I can I don't know

01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.000
if that answers your question

01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:31.000
it's a tough dilemma I know

01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:33.000
you got a boss this also

01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:34.000
touches on something else

01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:36.000
that I would I would I would

01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:37.000
encourage you all to think

01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:38.000
about when you start to apply

01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:41.000
for positions at institutions

01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:46.000
it is institutional health

01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:48.000
if you go into an institution

01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:49.000
that is not healthy it

01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:51.000
will have unhealthy systems

01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:54.000
it's just how it's gonna be

01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:55.000
and then you have to start

01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:56.000
asking yourself powerful

01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:58.000
questions if this is an 

01:04:58.000 --> 01:04:60.000
unhealthy system and this

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.000
person over here person a

01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:04.000
has managed to survive in an

01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:09.000
unhealthy system for ten years

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:11.000
what's the result of that for

01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.000
that person and you know

01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:14.000
the answer to that question

01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.000
over yeah that look yep that's

01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:18.000
the look she just gave a look

01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:21.000
that answered my question -- and

01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.000
so it's it's asking yourselves

01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:25.000
that about what kind of

01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:27.000
characteristics do you think a

01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:32.000
healthy institution might have

01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.000
and how do you find those

01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:39.000
things when you're interviewing

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:40.000
so you ask those kinds of

01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:42.000
questions when they say

01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:46.000
do you have any questions

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.000
what is the typical turnover

01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.000
rate how is and you don't ask it

01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.000
like that no now you say

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:57.000
 so ahh next but you say

01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:58.000
yeah and this is counseling

01:05:58.000 --> 01:05:59.000
skills right you're all

01:05:59.000 --> 01:05:65.000
counselors so -- you know

01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.000
typically you know what is the

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:08.000
average length of employment

01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:12.000
of your current employees

01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:18.000
make it a positive typically

01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:24.000
week does somebody work

01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:31.000
what is the average caseload

01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:33.000
and then being good counselors

01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:42.000
in sleep deprivation do they

01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:44.000
looked tense do they look upset

01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:47.000
do they live burned out when

01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:48.000
you see employees passed around

01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:50.000
in the hallway as you're going

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:51.000
to the best looking room in the

01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:52.000
building because they're trying

01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:55.000
to impress you what do they look like

01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:57.000
 I will be honest with you

01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:58.000
when I came out of grad school North

01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:60.000
Carolina had just completed

01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:02.000
an overhaul of their healthcare

01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:04.000
system their mental health and it

01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:07.000
was a mess and so we were all

01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:11.000
scared the average wait for to

01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:13.000
find a job in North Carolina

01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:15.000
back in '06 when I started

01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.000
was like fourteen months the

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.000
federal government does not

01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:21.000
wait fourteen months to have

01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:22.000
you start paying back your

01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:26.000
student loans and they don't

01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:28.000
they don't yeah they don't

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:29.000
the money right they're kinda like 

01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.000
yeah they just want the money and

01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:33.000
it so there's a lot of stress

01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:35.000
in that the institutional

01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.000
that I worked had a had a

01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:39.000
prestigious reputation I was

01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:42.000
offered the job my wife is in

01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:47.000
grad school so I took the job

01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:55.000
the profession when they're

01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:57.000
not in the room when I say

01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:58.000
well what is the reputation

01:07:58.000 --> 01:07:59.000
of this institution out on

01:07:59.000 --> 01:07:62.000
the street what do people who

01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:04.000
don't work there say about it

01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:09.000
what do former employees

01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:11.000
who you have interacted with

01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:14.000
his say about it meaning you

01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:16.000
can look at that one two ways

01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:17.000
I mean you get the yelp right

01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:19.000
like there's always like one

01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:21.000
third one third one third and

01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:22.000
there's always like this --

01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:25.000
stars like right but the zero

01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:27.000
yelps are people who are I hated

01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:29.000
Yellowstone it was boring yes it's

01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:31.000
kind of you know but you listen

01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:34.000
for themes across across the

01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:38.000
comments you look for common

01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:42.000
statements across the comments

01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:45.000
to paint that picture and then you

01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:46.000
make a decision about is that

01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:48.000
a good fit for you look I know

01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:51.000
I was broke I was eating ramon

01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:52.000
you know my my wife had just

01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:55.000
to grad school we had bills

01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:59.000
to pay but if you put yourself

01:08:59.000 --> 01:08:60.000
in a situation you're not

01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.000
happy with that echoes out all

01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:07.000
across the work that you do

01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:09.000
the message that the people that

01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:11.000
given that you unintentionally

01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:12.000
give to the people in the room

01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:14.000
that you're working with if

01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:15.000
your if your person-centered

01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.000
like me is I don't want to be here

01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:22.000
and how does that affect them

01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:25.000
I wish I hadn't taken this job

01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:27.000
can I be in Hawaii right now and so

01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:32.000
so so it's thinking about that

01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.000
what was my first job was the question

01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:35.000
it was a twenty eight day

01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:37.000
treatment center and I don't

01:09:37.000 --> 01:09:38.000
want to give that example

01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.000
because I never actually

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:42.000
told anybody in my cohort this I got

01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.000
three job offers in a week and

01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:48.000
they were all like yeah

01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:50.000
so I never told anybody that

01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:52.000
the first group that I'd ever

01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:54.000
have admitted that too it was

01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:55.000
it was private practice is

01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:56.000
a twenty eight day treatment

01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:58.000
center the one that I took

01:09:58.000 --> 01:09:60.000
and and then I'd also been

01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:04.000
offered a job at a methadone

01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:05.000
clinic and that one I just

01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:06.000
didn't feel comfortable with 

01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.000
it wasn't the methadone part 

01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:12.000
it was just I didn't feel like

01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:13.000
they were trying to serve the

01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.000
needs of people with addiction

01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:19.000
that they were trying to make

01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:22.000
a profit I could not ethically

01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:25.000
be affiliated with something

01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:29.000
like that -- my personal

01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:31.000
views about methadone are

01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:35.000
if it works if that's what you

01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:36.000
need that's right I'm not the

01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:39.000
judge -- which I did not say

01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:40.000
the twelve step twenty eight

01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:44.000
day treatment center but

01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:46.000
that's you know you you fit in

01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:47.000
the container you are prep

01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:48.000
you're like water you fit

01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:50.000
in the water you fit in a

01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.000
container so so yeah that

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:54.000
that for me but your your

01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:55.000
experience may vary and also

01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:57.000
there's there's a somewhat

01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:59.000
hilarious story about why I

01:10:59.000 --> 01:10:60.000
got connected to the to the

01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:03.000
treatment center I was a TA

01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.000
for somebody I mean a graduate

01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:05.000
assistant for somebody and

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:06.000
he sent me to this job that I

01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:08.000
was ridiculously unqualified

01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.000
for like I still don't know why he

01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:15.000
convinced he sent me to NBCC

01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:17.000
corporate headquarters for a job

01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:19.000
yeah it's in Greensboro

01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:20.000
North Carolina and I was in

01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:22.000
Greensboro I was finishing up

01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:23.000
my internship and he sends me

01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:25.000
in there and I'm in my little

01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:26.000
your hey you look like twelve year

01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:27.000
old boy in your communion suit

01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:30.000
 and I'm all hey I'm a new professional and

01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:33.000
this guy is like your way under

01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:35.000
qualified well I knew a guy

01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:37.000
an interview and we went in

01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:39.000
his office and we laughed I

01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:40.000
was like I'm sorry didn't mean to waste

01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:41.000
you all's time and he's like well

01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:44.000
let me let me help you out --

01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:48.000
and so it was just luck really

01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:50.000
um but those things happen

01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:52.000
those things happen sometimes

01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:55.000
but your results may differ

01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:57.000
she was asking that it appeared

01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:58.000
that I've worked in several

01:11:58.000 --> 01:11:60.000
different jobs over time and

01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.000
moved across fields essentially

01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:03.000
the question is how did I do

01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:05.000
that because of the differences

01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:06.000
between certifications

01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.000
qualifications and you

01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:10.000
very nicely said basically

01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:13.000
professional biases -- which

01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:16.000
are there and exist when I

01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:18.000
left the treatment center and

01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:20.000
when applied that's exactly I

01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.000
had no experience what I did is

01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:26.000
that I looked at the essential

01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:30.000
parts underneath now the the

01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.000
job description I said well

01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:34.000
what how about doing these

01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:36.000
things in my current job it

01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.000
really is the variation of the

01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:41.000
the the the Amazon interview

01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:44.000
you know like now they boil

01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:45.000
down your essential skills in

01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:48.000
thirty seconds and that was

01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:49.000
the feedback that I got from

01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.000
them there were other people

01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:54.000
who had more qualifications but

01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:58.000
I talked with the most skill

01:12:58.000 --> 01:12:60.000
about how my qualifications

01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:01.000
and my experience would

01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:03.000
be a fit with their

01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:05.000
institution -- is selling

01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:09.000
to that but you can fake it

01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:13.000
but you can't fake it twice

01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:18.000
there is a piece of this

01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:20.000
in job interviews it is like

01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:23.000
a first date it really is like

01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:24.000
you're going in and you have

01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.000
a nice clothes on and they're

01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:27.000
going in and they have the

01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:28.000
nicest clothes on and you start

01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.000
asking questions and this is

01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:32.000
going to be a good fit I don't know

01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:38.000
movie -- we'll figure it out so

01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:40.000
so on let me finish the thought

01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:42.000
so so there is a piece that

01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:45.000
is selling yourself it is --

01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:48.000
I'm optimum Steve but after a certain

01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:51.000
point you have to be who you

01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:53.000
are yeah you're already in

01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.000
there so you want to talk in

01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:58.000
a sincere way because I carried

01:13:58.000 --> 01:13:59.000
that's sincerity into that job

01:13:59.000 --> 01:13:61.000
like I really felt that way

01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:03.000
about people I talked about

01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.000
why they had meaning and value

01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:07.000
why they were important why

01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:09.000
I cared and why I thought the

01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:11.000
skills that I learned so I

01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:13.000
basically took the question

01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:14.000
that they had their own minds

01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:16.000
I was pretty sure about and

01:14:16.000 --> 01:14:18.000
started to talk about so how

01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:19.000
does somebody work a twenty

01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:21.000
eight day treatment center

01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:24.000
fit here let me tell you how and

01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:25.000
then ultimately it's going to

01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:27.000
be their decision either they

01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:29.000
feel like that's a good fit or

01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:32.000
it's not -- and I've applied

01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:33.000
at several other jobs that's

01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:34.000
the story home here is the

01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.000
five or six other ones when I

01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:38.000
was thinking about leaving the

01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:40.000
treatment center that I didn't

01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:42.000
get where I wasn't a good fit

01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.000
also that's not a reflection of

01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:45.000
you as a human being by the way

01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:49.000
it's just they have a stack

01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:53.000
they have certain criteria

01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:56.000
you know and it can be it feels

01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:58.000
personal and it's not but it feels

01:14:58.000 --> 01:14:60.000
personal because it's your life

01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.000
and does this mean did I do 

01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:04.000
the wrong thing am I in the right profession

01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:05.000
do they know something about

01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:08.000
me I don't know no it's just

01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:09.000
you're going through a process and

01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:11.000
it's hard this one I just wanna

01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.000
show you this is my being present in

01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:15.000
the rooms of people in a nutshell

01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:17.000
that's it be who you are 

01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.000
not who you are not if you try to

01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:21.000
fake it with people and make

01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:23.000
them mad and I'm not I'm not

01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:25.000
kidding I'm not kidding if you

01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:26.000
try to be inauthentic with

01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:28.000
people in the rooms that's what

01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.000
you will get back as anger they

01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.000
don't know that they're reacting

01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:35.000
to inauthenticity and

01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:38.000
you may not even be aware I'm

01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:39.000
not saying that that's even

01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:40.000
intentional thing sometimes I'm

01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:42.000
trying to find an answer inside

01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:44.000
of me when I was first starting

01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:47.000
out I would try to push it and

01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:51.000
I got anger back now I will

01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:53.000
stop and pause I have paused

01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:54.000
as professional counselor for

01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:56.000
thirty seconds trying to come

01:15:56.000 --> 01:15:58.000
up with the question I want to

01:15:58.000 --> 01:15:60.000
ask and they will say are you okay 

01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000
yeah I'm fine I just didn't want

01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:04.000
to I wanted to pose this in a

01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:07.000
way that showed you respect and

01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:10.000
I will say it that way really 

01:16:10.000 --> 01:16:11.000
yeah because I respect you and

01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:13.000
I enjoy what we're doing here

01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:14.000
and I just wanna make sure I'm

01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:16.000
not trapping I'll just be very

01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:17.000
transparent with them I want

01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:19.000
to trap you in a corner I don't want to

01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:20.000
come up with your answer I just

01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:21.000
didn't quite know how to ask

01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:22.000
this question I apologize that

01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:25.000
we that they did that you still

01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:26.000
had to take some time to do

01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:28.000
I have never had somebody

01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:30.000
get mad at me for saying

01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.000
because I was completely honest

01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:33.000
with them and then sometimes

01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:34.000
they'll say you're trying to

01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:36.000
say this aren't you they'll give

01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:37.000
me the question trusting them

01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:39.000
to find their own answers that

01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:40.000
kind of comes back to this

01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:43.000
I love art I really do it's one

01:16:43.000 --> 01:16:44.000
of those therapeutic things

01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:46.000
that I do and I'm the guy that

01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:49.000
accidentally scares the guards

01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.000
at the museums because I will

01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:52.000
get right I mean as long as

01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:54.000
close as I legally can without setting

01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:56.000
off the alarms I love to just

01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:60.000
like you know like like -- --

01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:02.000
oh yeah they get really nervous

01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:03.000
in Chicago when you do that by

01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:04.000
the way because this thing is

01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:07.000
huge it's it's -- a Sunday in

01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:09.000
The Park it's Seurat he does

01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:11.000
those are all dots it took him like

01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:13.000
three years to paint the thing

01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:15.000
dot and backup it's like the

01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:17.000
Sistine Chapel in reverse right

01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:21.000
he climb down scaffolding climb

01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:25.000
back up the scaffolding yes so

01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.000
I get right up on the works of

01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:29.000
art because what you see are

01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:32.000
the brushstrokes you see what's

01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:34.000
happening inside the art you

01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:36.000
see the creative process that

01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:39.000
happened like when I was in

01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:41.000
okay I'm going to name drop when I

01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:45.000
was at the Picasso museum in Paris --

01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:47.000
you really see with Picasso I

01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:49.000
mean it's it's whatever he was

01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:51.000
doing and you're right up on it

01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:52.000
and you see the brush strokes

01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:55.000
of genius and it's just it's

01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:57.000
just so powerful and so cool

01:17:57.000 --> 01:17:58.000
and they get really nervous

01:17:58.000 --> 01:17:59.000
when you're doing like I'm

01:17:59.000 --> 01:17:63.000
kind of going like this and like this 

01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:04.000
now the one the one that was

01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:05.000
really interesting I never like

01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:09.000
Jackson Pollock I never I never

01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:11.000
like Pollock I was like I too

01:18:11.000 --> 01:18:13.000
can get drunk and turnover of

01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:15.000
paint can right you know it's

01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:19.000
not a skill until I went and

01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:23.000
saw one in person and I still

01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:26.000
think he's a great artist but

01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:28.000
the sheer energy that comes

01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:29.000
off of one of those canvases

01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:32.000
is undeniable I mean it just it

01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:36.000
like wow I think he was

01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:37.000
trying to paint something like

01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:38.000
counselor drug drug and alcohol

01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:40.000
counselor Steve I think you're

01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:41.000
trying to draw something pretty

01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:43.000
was drunk got angry and this is

01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:46.000
what we got and I might be wrong

01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:49.000
but there's a sheer force in it

01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:51.000
that while it's not my cup of

01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:56.000
tea I can appreciate I'm also

01:18:56.000 --> 01:18:57.000
the Hopper's the one up there

01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:59.000
in a corner of the house he

01:18:59.000 --> 01:18:60.000
always drew paintings with no

01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:03.000
door so they look all wonderful

01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:06.000
perfect and there's no way out

01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:08.000
there's this great one this guy

01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:09.000
sitting he's leaning back in his chair

01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:11.000
he's got like the office view

01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:12.000
right he's in he's in the top

01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:13.000
floor of a building and there's

01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:16.000
no door and he's looking out

01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:18.000
on the city so it's either

01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:19.000
I'm king of the world or I

01:19:19.000 --> 01:19:20.000
very well might go out the

01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:22.000
window one of those two you

01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:23.000
you kind of get to figure that

01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:24.000
out you know you kind of get

01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:26.000
to start thinking about it so

01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:29.000
what is all of that have to do

01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:32.000
with philosophy treatment it's

01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:34.000
a metaphor philosophy

01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:38.000
of working with other people

01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:41.000
don't like Pollack but

01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:46.000
I respect and appreciate

01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:47.000
ask yourself are there

01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:51.000
particular diagnoses that you

01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:59.000
are less fond of than others

01:19:59.000 --> 01:19:60.000
when I get up close

01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.000
and I start talking to those

01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:07.000
people they're just people

01:20:07.000 --> 01:20:08.000
they're just people with

01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:10.000
lives and they're trying to navigate it

01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:12.000
and we could all talk about

01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:14.000
this the elephant room around

01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:15.000
what particular diagnosis and

01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:16.000
probably most of us are not

01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:18.000
fans all of but that's not the

01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:19.000
point the point is is that this

01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:22.000
person has a way of being 

01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:25.000
a view point of the world that

01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:27.000
whether we would live that way

01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:30.000
or respect you know our respect 

01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:32.000
or not respect agree with all

01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:36.000
their decisions or whatever

01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:38.000
human beings are works of art

01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:40.000
they have the right to dignity

01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:42.000
and respect all of them

01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:44.000
what she was talking about is her

01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:46.000
her professional experience

01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:48.000
working at the state hospital

01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:51.000
with high acuity -- civil --

01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:53.000
what's the word and it's the

01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:55.000
civil -- yeah the

01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:58.000
story where they're put into

01:20:58.000 --> 01:20:59.000
the hospital that's the word

01:20:59.000 --> 01:20:62.000
anyways yeah thank you they're

01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:03.000
they're civilly or court-

01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:06.000
ordered in and that that that

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:07.000
oftentimes there's resistance

01:21:07.000 --> 01:21:11.000
to working with this group of

01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:14.000
patients for various reasons

01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:15.000
and that what she tries to do

01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.000
is see the person underneath

01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:21.000
the issues and the diagnosis

01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:23.000
and that's the real that's the

01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:27.000
real power that we have -- is

01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:28.000
to see each person that comes

01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:33.000
our office like this -- not

01:21:33.000 --> 01:21:35.000
my cup of tea not my decision

01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:37.000
making process but they have

01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:41.000
the right to their own dignity

01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:43.000
they have the right to see the

01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:45.000
world as they see it and it

01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:50.000
is not my job to change that

01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:52.000
my job I feel like at some

01:21:52.000 --> 01:21:56.000
level is to just ask questions

01:21:56.000 --> 01:21:57.000
this is where I actually

01:21:57.000 --> 01:21:59.000
steal from Beck a little bit

01:21:59.000 --> 01:21:60.000
although I've talked a lot

01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:02.000
about person-centered sometimes

01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:04.000
with some some clients I

01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:06.000
just talk about you know

01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:08.000
look at look at the framework

01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:09.000
of thought look at the frame

01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:12.000
work of decision making -- were

01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.000
there other cognitive distortions

01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:15.000
what what is the result of

01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:17.000
your decision what are the 

01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:18.000
I don't say consequences because

01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:19.000
they're not ten but I say

01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:21.000
you know what are the results

01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:23.000
of your decision making and

01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:25.000
is that what you want is that

01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:28.000
the goal that you had set and

01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.000
it's not personal so I can I

01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:32.000
can work with Jackson Pollock

01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:35.000
and that's okay now do I want

01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:36.000
to work with Jackson Pollock

01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:40.000
eight hours a day every day no

01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:41.000
but there's a really powerful

01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:42.000
thing here that we have to

01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:44.000
remember and and I have to

01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:47.000
remember people are not their diagnosis

01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:49.000
diagnosis is a book

01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:53.000
it's just a book it's just a book

01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:54.000
the people in our office our

01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:56.000
people it is a tool that we

01:22:56.000 --> 01:22:58.000
use to help ourselves do our

01:22:58.000 --> 01:22:61.000
jobs it's not something we

01:23:01.000 --> 01:23:03.000
hit people over the head with

01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:07.000
or judge them with --

01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:08.000
it's a way for us to find the

01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:12.000
best way possible to work

01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:13.000
with them to move through

01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:16.000
their issues with them Yalom

01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:17.000
uses a word he uses this

01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:18.000
expression he calls it being a

01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:21.000
fellow traveler there's something

01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:23.000
really you know I'm in the canoe

01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:25.000
but I'm in the canoe right I'm in

01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:28.000
a canoe with them so we travel

01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:31.000
through this process together

01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:34.000
talking about boundaries you know

01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:35.000
being healthy taking care of

01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:36.000
ourselves but we're still in

01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:39.000
it together and so that was

01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:40.000
actually a grad school project

01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:41.000
that I did I was like how would

01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:44.000
I really think about this is

01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:45.000
really for me when I walk in

01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:50.000
the room I'm like wow okay

01:23:50.000 --> 01:23:53.000
you know and point out things

01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:54.000
that are fascinating and

01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:55.000
point out things that are

01:23:55.000 --> 01:23:58.000
interesting and see their power

01:23:58.000 --> 01:23:60.000
and see their uniqueness and

01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:04.000
see them as people -- and so

01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:05.000
so do you guys have questions

01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:06.000
or wondering about your own

01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:08.000
philosophy I mean I know you the

01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:10.000
Corey book and goes on and on

01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:11.000
I mean I know I know no

01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:14.000
offense -- but they spend 

01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:15.000
a lot of time talking about it

01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:16.000
do you have questions or

01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:17.000
you wondering about stuff or

01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:19.000
if you ever just you know anything

01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:21.000
at all I'm happy to answer it

01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:23.000
she asked a question about how to

01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:26.000
find for her fall philosophy of

01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:29.000
therapy kind of our defense in

01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:31.000
the spring information for her

01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:34.000
particular philosophy because

01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:36.000
it's and I was about to start

01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:37.000
answering well there's not a

01:24:37.000 --> 01:24:39.000
lot of research and so that's

01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:41.000
the first issue the second

01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:42.000
issue is sort of the thing

01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:43.000
that's in the room that we have

01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:47.000
talked about what do you Carl

01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:52.000
Young Carl Rogers Freud Beck --

01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:56.000
old white dudes yeah they're all 

01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:61.000
they're all men and so it's hard

01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:02.000
it's hard in this philosophy

01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:04.000
to find something because it's

01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:06.000
from a male perspective and

01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:08.000
I'm fascinated to find out what

01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:10.000
happens when we finally stop

01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:12.000
doing that we finally stop

01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:15.000
having yet another white

01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:16.000
person at Yale telling

01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:18.000
us what to do and that

01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:21.000
we have Native American

01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:25.000
people and women and you know and

01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:26.000
Native American women and

01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:28.000
you know just just all these

01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:30.000
different voices talking

01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:33.000
about their experience

01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:34.000
unfortunately what my

01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:37.000
suggestion might be is to

01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:40.000
go back and look at person-

01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:46.000
centered and then how does this fit

01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:48.000
I would encourage you to

01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:51.000
have engaging conversations

01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:54.000
with your faculty about how

01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:60.000
how to do that -- and you know

01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:01.000
take what you want to leave

01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:03.000
the rest kind of philosophy

01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:07.000
of person-centered of all

01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:10.000
those people but you saw

01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:11.000
that slide I did before you have

01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:14.000
to be who you are or it's not

01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:15.000
authentic I can't stress that

01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:17.000
enough you'all that it's

01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:18.000
like whatever else happens when

01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:22.000
you're in the rooms it has to be you

01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.000
you have to be comfortable

01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:27.000
with it and  I NBCC

01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:28.000
is in Greensboro they're

01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:30.000
connected to an institution

01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:32.000
there they are very serious

01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:33.000
at this institution they do

01:26:33.000 --> 01:26:34.000
serious work all the time 

01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:36.000
no laughing or smiling no running in

01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:39.000
the hallways and they do open-ended

01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:42.000
questions beautifully but it's

01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:45.000
just a framework there's no --

01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:46.000
I mean I've watched the tapes

01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:48.000
and like wow it's like laundry

01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:52.000
lists -- going to the store

01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:58.000
and so it's like okay what's

01:26:58.000 --> 01:26:59.000
what do I believe as a human

01:26:59.000 --> 01:26:63.000
being about this process how

01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.000
do I put that into this this

01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:09.000
relationship and for you that's

01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:10.000
that so I would encourage you

01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:12.000
to go down the track but not

01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:13.000
just I'm going to bravely go do this

01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:14.000
by myself and then go show up

01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:15.000
because I also know what we're

01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:17.000
talking about here this is

01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:18.000
this is a high risk high reward

01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:21.000
moment so don't go don't go

01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:23.000
do that by yourself if you

01:27:23.000 --> 01:27:25.000
choose to do it and trust your

01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:27.000
faculty to help you navigate

01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:28.000
it and you seem like a person

01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.000
who do so but I good luck with

01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:33.000
that I would actually really

01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:34.000
no no but I mean that 

01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:36.000
like in a very serious way

01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:39.000
like you could be helping

01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:44.000
to break ground on something new

01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:48.000
we need new we really do you know

01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:52.000
same old same old yeah so

01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:59.000
what I hear you saying is --

01:27:59.000 --> 01:27:64.000
not bad yeah so so so thank

01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:05.000
you that's a great question I

01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:06.000
don't know if I answered it but

01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:08.000
you know honestly from my own

01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:10.000
perspective like I said I got

01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:11.000
I got the Corey book out again

01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:14.000
talk about so I was like oh yeah I even

01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:15.000
took a couple things from Aaron Beck 

01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:18.000
which shocked me -- like I do

01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:20.000
homework I don't call it homework

01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:23.000
because third I am from Aaron

01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:30.000
Beck I took free agency you are

01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:33.000
a person in the world and

01:28:33.000 --> 01:28:35.000
obviously I don't use that with

01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:37.000
every person because sometimes

01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:38.000
they're in circumstances where

01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:40.000
they are robbed of their free

01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:46.000
agency on yeah so I'm very

01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:48.000
careful about that -- I'll

01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.000
be very frank in domestic

01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:50.000
violence situations I've never

01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:52.000
talk about free agency it just

01:28:52.000 --> 01:28:57.000
doesn't fit but it's a tool

01:28:57.000 --> 01:28:60.000
in my box and so when I talk

01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:03.000
to people I can usually see

01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:05.000
moods you know you're saying

01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:07.000
there are no choices well

01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:10.000
let's look that's the only

01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:11.000
thing from him that I really

01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:13.000
use ABC is just not wow if the

01:29:13.000 --> 01:29:16.000
world worked as ABC's

01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:18.000
wouldn't life be wonderful

01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:20.000
and so there are

01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:21.000
things from Carl Rogers that

01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:22.000
I take I really believe in

01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:24.000
genuineness as you might

01:29:24.000 --> 01:29:26.000
guess I really believe in

01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:28.000
unconditional regard because

01:29:28.000 --> 01:29:30.000
people deserve that respect

01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:32.000
he doesn't ahh same with Yalom

01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:33.000
and he talks about personal

01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:34.000
boundaries in that book and

01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:35.000
there's some things I read

01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:39.000
oh no uh no mmhm no

01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:41.000
but he comes from a time

01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:42.000
he comes from an experience

01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:43.000
he's welcome to it and I'm

01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:45.000
welcome to skip that page for

01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:48.000
the transfer yeah and so the

01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:49.000
longer I do this that's what my

01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:51.000
experience is that I'm not

01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:53.000
pure one thing or another

01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:56.000
thing it's more who I am I

01:29:56.000 --> 01:29:57.000
there's an assignment there

01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.000
but I think we're kind of yeah

01:29:59.000 --> 01:29:60.000
I was gonna stay for a couple

01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:02.000
hours I have to actually get

01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:03.000
back to the office but there's

01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:04.000
an assignment there that's

01:30:04.000 --> 01:30:07.000
really helpful and it is list

01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:10.000
your strengths list your fears and

01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:16.000
list your unfinished business

01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:17.000
and that's strange would you

01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:18.000
think your strengths are as

01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:19.000
a counselor what you think

01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:21.000
your fears are entering the

01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:23.000
counseling profession and

01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:24.000
then what is your unfinished

01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:26.000
business your personal one and

01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:30.000
that's not to share because

01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:31.000
the reason why there's three

01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:32.000
things are important is that I

01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:33.000
want to kind of start to talk

01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:34.000
about that a little bit is if

01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:36.000
that's what you will take in with you

01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:37.000
my first day I was

01:30:37.000 --> 01:30:40.000
doing group therapy at the drug

01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:41.000
alcohol treatment center there

01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:42.000
were like twenty it was a men's

01:30:42.000 --> 01:30:45.000
group so there are twenty and these guys

01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:47.000
are like professionals right

01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:48.000
they've been drinking a long

01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:49.000
time they've been using dope

01:30:49.000 --> 01:30:51.000
along time they've heard all

01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:53.000
of this at least four times

01:30:53.000 --> 01:30:56.000
in various settings and it's

01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:58.000
it's like it's like sharks

01:30:58.000 --> 01:30:59.000
in the water and then there's

01:30:59.000 --> 01:30:61.000
like hey playing the role of

01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:03.000
of chum today is Steve we're going to

01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:05.000
throw Steve in the water and see what happens

01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:07.000
somebody said something and

01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:08.000
I was like I wonder what

01:31:08.000 --> 01:31:09.000
the counselors gonna do

01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:14.000
to respond to that -- oh wait

01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:17.000
what am I gonna do now -- and

01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:19.000
then all that theory kind of runs

01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:22.000
out of your head because it should

01:31:22.000 --> 01:31:24.000
you know the theory will come out

01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:28.000
and you will trust it like I

01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:29.000
said it was funny like I kind

01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:30.000
of forgotten how much of that

01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:32.000
stuff that I just naturally use

01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:35.000
because it's me yeah I did have

01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:36.000
have a fear like I was gonna get

01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:40.000
up here and says I don't really use these

01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:41.000
but but when I went back and

01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:43.000
read the books it's like yeah this is

01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:45.000
what I feel comfortable with

01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:47.000
this is what I gravitated

01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:50.000
towards so if you're neo-Freudian

01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:52.000
that's okay be neo-Freudian 

01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:58.000
I myself not so much but I

01:31:58.000 --> 01:31:60.000
I had somebody in a grad school

01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:01.000
I was an undergrad and grad

01:32:01.000 --> 01:32:03.000
school the experience class

01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:05.000
kind of cool I was undergrad

01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:06.000
and grad school class at the

01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:07.000
University of Wyoming where I got

01:32:07.000 --> 01:32:09.000
my undergrad degree nursing

01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:12.000
there is out of very powerful

01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:13.000
self assured woman who's

01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:15.000
very sure that Anna Freud was

01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:18.000
right and she would absolutely

01:32:18.000 --> 01:32:20.000
wrestle people on the floor over it

01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:21.000
and whether I agreed with it

01:32:21.000 --> 01:32:24.000
or not wasn't the point it was

01:32:24.000 --> 01:32:26.000
impressive to watch somebody

01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:28.000
be so sure of what they were

01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:33.000
saying and their belief in it

01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:35.000
and that was a powerful lesson for me

01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:36.000
so when I talk about these

01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:40.000
things I am very sure of it

01:32:40.000 --> 01:32:43.000
because it's what I believe it's

01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:44.000
what I know to be true for

01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:48.000
me and so that's what I was

01:32:48.000 --> 01:32:49.000
thinking if you're wondering

01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:51.000
about your philosophy yeah

01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:55.000
just explore because what I'll tell you

01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:59.000
 is that everybody you know

01:32:59.000 --> 01:32:62.000
person-centered DBT

01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:04.000
poor Vango right -- really

01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:08.000
what do they do with him  -- OCD

01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:12.000
delusional thinking right so we

01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:14.000
and then and then it's

01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:18.000
what's working in this moment

01:33:18.000 --> 01:33:21.000
I don't know I'll try something see

01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:26.000
if it works that didn't work okay

01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:28.000
try something else see if that

01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:30.000
works but at the core of it

01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:32.000
is me at the core of it is that

01:33:32.000 --> 01:33:36.000
that somebody so -- intuitively

01:33:36.000 --> 01:33:37.000
pointed out before is that I

01:33:37.000 --> 01:33:39.000
am from that space that person-

01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:42.000
centered space and that that's

01:33:42.000 --> 01:33:44.000
the framework where I start from

01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:46.000
but I have been very behavioral

01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:50.000
with people so when you try to land

01:33:50.000 --> 01:33:53.000
the jet and you're drunk what

01:33:53.000 --> 01:33:55.000
are the possible consequences

01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:56.000
of that real conversation

01:33:56.000 --> 01:33:58.000
what is the consequence of

01:33:58.000 --> 01:33:61.000
landing the 747 at Heathrow while

01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:05.000
you're drunk and the rain's falling

01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:09.000
well the drinking's not a problem

01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:12.000
so what would the -- yeah what

01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:13.000
would the British version of

01:34:13.000 --> 01:34:18.000
the FAA say when you put that

01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:19.000
thing in the you know when you

01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:21.000
roll you belly rolled that

01:34:21.000 --> 01:34:22.000
thing going 400 miles

01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:23.000
right very behavior I'm talk

01:34:23.000 --> 01:34:26.000
about his inner child never

01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:29.000
came up behavior consequence

01:34:29.000 --> 01:34:31.000
behavior consequence behavior

01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:34.000
consequence but yeah you you run

01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:36.000
into you run into these things

01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:38.000
were you will have a response

01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:40.000
and your response is natural

01:34:40.000 --> 01:34:43.000
and it's appropriate and it's

01:34:43.000 --> 01:34:46.000
all right to have that internally

01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:50.000
how do we move this process

01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:55.000
forward how can I ask the oh my

01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:57.000
god question without offending

01:34:57.000 --> 01:34:59.000
this person without side

01:34:59.000 --> 01:34:61.000
tracking the process and moving

01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:05.000
towards a goal -- but yeah

01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:07.000
those those instincts are okay

01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:11.000
please have them do that you know

01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:13.000
and then that's also more

01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:15.000
grist for the mill what am I

01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:18.000
experiencing right now and then

01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:21.000
sometimes if things get stuck

01:35:21.000 --> 01:35:23.000
or if things aren't going so well

01:35:23.000 --> 01:35:24.000
this is what I'm experiencing

01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:25.000
in a room right now what are

01:35:25.000 --> 01:35:27.000
you feeling I feel a little stuck do you

01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:29.000
feel stuck with what's what's

01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:32.000
happening for you sure there's

01:35:32.000 --> 01:35:33.000
always something to work off of

01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:35.000
if they come back and say they

01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:37.000
didn't do their assignments you

01:35:37.000 --> 01:35:38.000
can say well let's talk about

01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:41.000
that we agreed and you

01:35:41.000 --> 01:35:42.000
said you're very excited to

01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:43.000
do this assignment and then

01:35:43.000 --> 01:35:44.000
two weeks later sometimes

01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:46.000
forget sometimes I just forget

01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:47.000
sometimes they remind me

01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:49.000
sometimes I remind them but if they

01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:50.000
just come in and they say what

01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:52.000
that was like the foolish most

01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:53.000
foolish thing I ever heard

01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:55.000
my whole life and so I didn't do it

01:35:55.000 --> 01:35:57.000
well let's talk about that so

01:35:57.000 --> 01:35:58.000
what happened inside you when

01:35:58.000 --> 01:35:60.000
you looked at that assignment and there we

01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:01.000
are right we're not we're not

01:36:01.000 --> 01:36:03.000
wrestling and power struggling

01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:06.000
over an assignment we get

01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:08.000
right to their feelings that's

01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:09.000
well I was really angry well

01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.000
that's fascinating because how

01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:12.000
long we know have we know each other 

01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:15.000
well like two hours and that's a

01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:16.000
really strong anger response

01:36:16.000 --> 01:36:17.000
to a person you've known

01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:19.000
exactly two hours I wonder if

01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:20.000
that anger might be somewhere

01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:26.000
else what might that be I don't know

01:36:26.000 --> 01:36:27.000
and then yeah and they say

01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:28.000
well let's stop and think

01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:29.000
about it yeah sorry I'm kind

01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.000
of role playing this now but this

01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:32.000
is what happened it's like

01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:34.000
there's always like there's always something

01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:36.000
to do there's always there's

01:36:36.000 --> 01:36:39.000
always a place to be I've

01:36:39.000 --> 01:36:42.000
never been in a session where

01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:43.000
unless they're shut down unless

01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:45.000
they're just like I don't want to

01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:47.000
talk and then you get to sit

01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:50.000
in silence I challenge all of

01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:53.000
you with silence be okay with

01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:59.000
the silence I have hung on for

01:36:59.000 --> 01:36:60.000
forty five seconds or a minute

01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:03.000
a couple times just waited

01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:07.000
just sat there I look 

01:37:07.000 --> 01:37:09.000
at my watch okay I'm not

01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:10.000
really looking at my watch but

01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:12.000
it's like hmm I'm very relaxed

01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:15.000
about it they'll say something

01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:16.000
and it might just be as simple

01:37:16.000 --> 01:37:19.000
well why aren't we talking I don't

01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:22.000
know why aren't we talking is there

01:37:22.000 --> 01:37:23.000
is there something happening

01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:25.000
in this process did you don't feel

01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.000
comfortable talking right now

01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:30.000
right back into it so I just

01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:32.000
encourage you on I'm I'm I'm

01:37:32.000 --> 01:37:33.000
about out of time is there any

01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:35.000
other questions that you would

01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:38.000
like to ask anything I can talk

01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:40.000
about anything you wished I talked

01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:42.000
about I can I can answer any

01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:44.000
questions yeah go ahead 

01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:47.000
so ours is multi-tiered I have

01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:48.000
a personal one that we keep

01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:53.000
on file on that day we don't

01:37:53.000 --> 01:37:55.000
pass out to everyone because

01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:57.000
I work for this organization

01:37:57.000 --> 01:37:59.000
but if you wanted it I'm more

01:37:59.000 --> 01:37:61.000
than happy to give it to you

01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:02.000
in addition we also have an

01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:04.000
organizational professional

01:38:04.000 --> 01:38:05.000
disclosure statement that was

01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:10.000
created by the law firm of...

01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:12.000
to cover all of that and so at

01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:14.000
the beginning of every session

01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:16.000
I go over the professional

01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:17.000
disclosure statement in exactly

01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:21.000
the same way every time so if

01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:23.000
I when I get called when I get

01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:26.000
called into court I can say

01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:27.000
well I go over the professional

01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:28.000
disclosure statement in the

01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:30.000
same way every time and I use

01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:32.000
the same language and I can

01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:34.000
say verbatim and I do that on

01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:37.000
purpose -- I don't change it

01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:39.000
I don't alter it I don't add

01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:41.000
additional information to muddy

01:38:41.000 --> 01:38:45.000
the waters I say you know

01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:46.000
whatever hey whatever you're

01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:47.000
saying this room stays in

01:38:47.000 --> 01:38:49.000
this room with some exceptions

01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:51.000
and here are the exceptions

01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:53.000
homicidal and suicidal

01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:54.000
ideations I'm required by law

01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:56.000
to turn that over to I mean

01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:57.000
to to report that information

01:38:57.000 --> 01:38:59.000
to the proper authorities if

01:38:59.000 --> 01:38:61.000
you report child abuse in the

01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:02.000
sessions I'm required by law

01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:04.000
for if you report endangering

01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:05.000
vulnerable populations and

01:39:05.000 --> 01:39:07.000
a list those populations out

01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:08.000
I'm required by law if I'm ever

01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:10.000
subpoenaed I have to turn over

01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:11.000
the records do you have any

01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:13.000
questions and then I invite

01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:15.000
them back and say and you can

01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:17.000
answer you can ask me questions

01:39:17.000 --> 01:39:19.000
about that at any point in this

01:39:19.000 --> 01:39:22.000
process so it also resemble

01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:24.000
explained it at the beginning but then

01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:26.000
I never heard about it again

01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:28.000
while actually gave them self

01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:30.000
free agency right they have the

01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:32.000
right also the responsibility

01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:35.000
to come back if they choose not

01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:40.000
to do that not my responsibility

01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:42.000
and that's a subtle when I do

01:39:42.000 --> 01:39:45.000
there that's boundary right

01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:46.000
that's the first boundary

01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:47.000
that actually sat with them

01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:49.000
kind of from the beginning so

01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:55.000
yeah yeah and we have lawyers

01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:57.000
they handle and that stuff I don't

01:39:57.000 --> 01:39:59.000
I don't I don't -- I just

01:39:59.000 --> 01:39:61.000
want to talk about your inner child

01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:03.000
you don't you don't want me messing

01:40:03.000 --> 01:40:04.000
around the law stuff you know that's

01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:06.000
that's outside of the scope

01:40:06.000 --> 01:40:09.000
of my practice -- so thank

01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:11.000
you very much I appreciate

01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:12.000
your time I appreciate your

01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:13.000
questions and your insights

01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:16.000
and good luck y'all