WEBVTT 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.000 I'd like to introduce our 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.000 panelists next to me of course 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.000 President Fuller whom I believe 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:15.000 you all know Rebecca Chiles 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:18.000 is the director of Campus Public Safety 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.000 which includes emergency 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:22.000 management environmental and occupation 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000 health and safety and parking 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.000 service she has been involved 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.000 in campus law enforcement for 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.000 over twenty three years 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:32.000 next to her is Ryan Hagemann he 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.000 has represented Oregon's public universities 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:36.000 including Western Oregon University as legal 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.000 counsel for nearly twenty 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.000 years his work has included the 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.000 Oregon Department of Justice 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.000 the former Oregon university 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:44.000 system where he was vice 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:46.000 chancellor in general counsel 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 and presently he serves as 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.000 WOU's vice president and general 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.000 counsel Ryan is from Hermiston 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.000 Oregon and he received his BA 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:54.000 with honors in politics from 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.000 Whitman College and his JD from 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.000 the University of Oregon Ryan 00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:60.000 also serves in his personal 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.000 capacity is the board chair of 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:04.000 the High Desert Museum in Bend 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.000 and with his husband Roy 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.000 supports 'Ahi Voy! a nonprofit 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.000 working to enhance and create 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:10.000 educational opportunities 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:11.000 for vineyard workers and 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.000 laborers and next to Ryan we 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:16.000 have Erik Morgan Jr. who 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:17.000 is the current president of 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:18.000 the Associated Students of 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Western Oregon University Erik 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:22.000 is currently a senior here 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.000 at WOU and he is majoring 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.000 in philosophy 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:26.000 so President fuller will begin today 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:31.000 with a few opening remarks 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:32.000 thank you and thank you 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:34.000 all for being here -- the 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.000 genesis of this conversation 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:37.000 really started in the summer 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.000 months following the 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.000 university's hosting of Joey Gibson 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.000 in June there were 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.000 follow up conversations with 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:45.000 Faculty Senate and then Provost Winningham 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:46.000 gathered a number 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:48.000 of us together over the summer 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.000 months to have a conversation 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.000 about what can we learn 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:54.000 from that case study it's 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.000 probably indicative that Rob 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.000 convened us and yet he's in the 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.000 audience not on the panel to 00:01:59.000 --> 00:01:60.000 tell you that that's good -- 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.000 good delegation of authority and 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.000 skills but nonetheless we met 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.000 several times over the summer 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.000 just talked about the fact that 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:09.000 that particular case study 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.000 if you will -- and so our hope 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.000 today is to give you a sense 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.000 of decision making processes 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:17.000 that lead to -- Joey coming 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:18.000 to campus -- the way in which 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.000 we were prepared for that 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.000 event also the different 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.000 elements of the decision making 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.000 process that were considered 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.000 made around what I would say 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:31.000 is a controversial speaker 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.000 and -- -- that was really 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.000 the forefront of our thinking 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:36.000 during the months that led up 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.000 or the weeks that led up to 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.000 his arrival on June 4th 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:43.000 finish today's conversation 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.000 we'll have a better sense of the 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.000 the different lenses that one 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000 has to consider -- the role of 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.000 the university in today's society 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:54.000 need to take with regard to 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.000 free speech -- but also safety 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.000 in a sense of how we engage 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:60.000 in a as a place where ideas can 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:02.000 be debated -- and -- if you've 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:04.000 seen my fall newsletter one 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:05.000 of the the books that actually 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:08.000 Kathy recommended is a book 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.000 that I read recently around 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:13.000 the notion that my position 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:16.000 is now as it was then that 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.000 having a dialogue -- and a 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.000 debate about -- what's the 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:21.000 better argument based upon 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:24.000 evidence -- is a way forward 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:25.000 for universities so I'm hoping 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:27.000 today's conversation sheds 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.000 light on that -- later in the 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.000 in the -- panel there will be time 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.000 for questions I also will 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:34.000 be joining the panelists for 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.000 any questions that might be 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:39.000 decision making process so 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:40.000 again I want to thank you for coming 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:41.000 it's a great turn out -- and 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:42.000 I think each panelist will 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.000 give you a perspective of 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.000 the role we played during 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.000 that process that led to the 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:53.000 hosting of Mr. Gibson 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:54.000 okay we have a few prepared 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.000 questions and then we should 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.000 have plenty of time for Q&A 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.000 and the first question is 00:03:59.000 --> 00:03:61.000 for Rebecca Rebecca what do you 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.000 wish the campus community had 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:04.000 known about the planning that 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.000 goes into preparing both for 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:09.000 possible emergencies as well 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.000 as events such as controversial 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:14.000 speakers I accept Cassity 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.000 it's almost kind of speak in 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.000 generalities about -- emergency 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.000 preparedness and kind of the 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:22.000 things that we do and the 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:25.000 things that we've been doing -- 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.000 around that and during the Q&A 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.000 we can do some more 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.000 specific questions about that 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.000 particular event -- if you want 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.000 to do that so -- I think this 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.000 is a great opportunity for our 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.000 campus to learn about emergency 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.000 preparedness and the things 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:42.000 that kind of go into all this 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.000 preparation in the background 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:45.000 that people don't know about 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.000 about our emergency planning 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.000 team that we have on campus 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:52.000 and that's made up of five 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.000 of the staff from all across 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:57.000 campus all divisions -- and 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.000 this team has come together in 00:04:59.000 --> 00:04:60.000 the past couple years and our 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.000 main focus has been to create 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:08.000 update our existing old -- -- 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:10.000 emergency operations plan and 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.000 so that's what our focus has 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.000 been that and the training 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.000 and those pieces of it and 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.000 getting this campus prepared 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.000 and so we've done that and 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.000 in that plan it looks like -- 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:23.000 there's a basic plan and then 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.000 there's what's called annexes 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.000 there's functional annexes 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:30.000 which would be how to evacuate 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.000 the campus how to transport 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.000 people from campus those types 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000 of things and then there's the 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.000 specific annexes that 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.000 are things like earthquakes 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:47.000 unrest all of those things fall 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.000 under that so were several of 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.000 those as well and so as a as 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.000 a group that emergency plan team 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.000 along with President Fuller and 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.000 the rest of the cabinet 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:58.000 we get together every term and 00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:60.000 we walk through an exercise 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.000 we work through an exercise we 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.000 we practice it we drill 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.000 we do those things you all remember 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:07.000 the Great ShakeOut we do that 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:10.000 every year -- and so we while 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000 that's going on on campus we're 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:13.000 behind the scenes doing an actual 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.000 exercise around that so it's 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.000 always a great opportunity 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.000 for us to learn number one and 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.000 we find out things we 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.000 need to do different find out 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.000 places that we are lacking 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.000 resources we're lacking -- 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.000 communication we're lacking 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.000 collaboration and so all those 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.000 things are hugely important 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:34.000 either a disaster that happened 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.000 suddenly or even one that you 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.000 have some advance warning of 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:41.000 to the level of necessarily 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.000 disaster -- but it may be -- 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.000 you know a heightened situation 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.000 that brings a level 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:54.000 of elevation about so that's 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.000 what -- that's what we've been 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.000 doing -- for the past couple 00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:62.000 years as it is that and then 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.000 so once we start looking at 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.000 one that we have notice of 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.000 like the Joey Gibson event we 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:14.000 would -- you know all of this 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:15.000 work in planning goes into 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.000 that because thankfully we have 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.000 notice we -- 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:23.000 in disasters that happen 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:24.000 you rarely have notice so this 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.000 is one that's a luxury to have 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:28.000 notice when you have one of 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.000 these things pop up like this 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.000 all of these things you look at 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:38.000 best practices you look at -- 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.000 you gather intelligence 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.000 you look at past behavior 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.000 you look at all the safety 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.000 risks you talk to all of your 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.000 partner agencies all around 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.000 that may have been involved 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:50.000 with this person anywhere 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:52.000 across the United States ever 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.000 as much intelligence as you 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.000 can gather and you compile all 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:58.000 of that information and then 00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.000 we're gonna be guided our 00:07:59.000 --> 00:07:61.000 decision making our 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:02.000 course of action is going to 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.000 be guided using all of those 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:06.000 things together all that stuff 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:07.000 that we've gathered and we're gonna 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.000 try to make the best decision 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.000 for our campus going forward -- 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.000 with safety number one is the 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:16.000 driving force behind all of 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.000 it always -- the safety of our 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.000 folks on campus is going 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.000 to come first -- and so that's 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.000 that's the background of what 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.000 happens when -- when we're 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.000 looking at an event like that 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.000 a captive audience because 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:34.000 a lot of talk about this too 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:37.000 is -- all the things that we 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.000 have on this campus around 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.000 emergency preparedness not just 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.000 not just -- civil unrest or 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.000 protester that type of thing 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.000 but -- we have emergency bags 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:50.000 now in every single building 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.000 on every single floor -- that 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:54.000 are that are there they have 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.000 equipment in them they have 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:56.000 tourniquets in them they have 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.000 medical supplies all kinds 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.000 of things in there to help an 00:08:59.000 --> 00:08:61.000 emergency situation we have AEDs 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.000 in every single building 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.000 on this campus now all this 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:08.000 just happened this summer 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.000 so there's things that 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:13.000 are happening to make sure -- 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.000 the university's providing all 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:20.000 of these things -- and then you 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:21.000 we depend on everybody else 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:22.000 to do the rest right to go to 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:25.000 our ALICE trainings -- where we 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.000 talk about how to have a 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:29.000 response to an active shooter 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.000 we depend on folks to actually 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.000 attend those trainings we 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:34.000 depend on folks to attend the 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.000 Stop the Bleed trainings so you 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.000 learn how to apply a tourniquet 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.000 the last four months I posted 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.000 that five times we need people 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:45.000 to attend those things first aid 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:47.000 CPR get certified do those 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.000 things and so that's the best 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:51.000 way to move forward with all of 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.000 us together collaboratively to be 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:56.000 a disaster resilient university and that's 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:57.000 that's what our goal is that's 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.000 my goal as an emergency manager 00:09:59.000 --> 00:09:60.000 of this campus that's what I 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.000 where I want us to be thanks 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:05.000 okay I'm sure people have 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.000 more specific questions about 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:08.000 this particular event Rebecca 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.000 and ideas do you hear in the 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.000 context of free speech that 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.000 your legal mind might like 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:21.000 to clarify or more accurately 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:23.000 more accurately define for 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:25.000 us thank you Kathy I'm gonna 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:26.000 take a little bit of time I 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.000 have done this before in other 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.000 venues and so I've been cutting 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:31.000 and pasting different documents 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:32.000 over the past you know couple 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.000 of months but I'll make three 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.000 observations and then move into 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.000 some of the misconceptions and 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.000 missed statements that many of 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:40.000 us as Americans make about the 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:41.000 freedom of expression and the 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.000 first amendment -- I'm gonna 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:45.000 time myself too -- first of all this 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.000 is from the legal perspective 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:48.000 and so I think that what's 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.000 important about a conversation like 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000 this is we have emergency we 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.000 have a student perspective 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.000 from Erik and we'll 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.000 have lots of questions from 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.000 from our community I'm here 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.000 for ten or twelve minutes 00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:60.000 to talk about an exclusively 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.000 legal lens that's my 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.000 contribution to this and so I 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.000 think it's one data point it's 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.000 not the end all be all of 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.000 everything it's one but one 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:10.000 data point but a very important 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.000 data point second of all -- 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.000 agency -- are responsible to 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:17.000 the First Amendment to the 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.000 United States Constitution 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.000 and as we'll go through we'll 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:21.000 understand the breadth of 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.000 what that requires us 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.000 requires of us as a public 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.000 entity but it's also important 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.000 to note in Oregon not only 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:30.000 are we subject to the First Amendment 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.000 to the United States Constitution 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:32.000 we're subject to 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:33.000 Article 1 Section 8 of 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.000 the Oregon Constitution and 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:36.000 when we go through a couple of 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.000 the misconceptions we'll talk 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:39.000 about exceptions to the 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.000 First Amendment but it's important 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:42.000 to understand from a legal 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.000 perspective in Oregon even some 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:46.000 of those exceptions don't apply 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.000 Oregon's Constitution is the 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.000 most protective of expression 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.000 of any constitution in the 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.000 United States so for example 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.000 in Oregon there's no such thing 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:57.000 as obscenity they've tried many 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:58.000 times they've tried five times and 00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.000 the Oregon Supreme Court said 00:11:59.000 --> 00:11:61.000 no dice so in other places it 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:02.000 is an exception to the 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.000 First Amendment not in Oregon so 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.000 it's important understand the 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.000 breadth of the protections 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:08.000 that we contend with from the 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.000 legal perspective finally -- 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:12.000 as you know as Kathy 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.000 talked about I'm gonna kind of 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:15.000 go through some misstatements 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.000 and misperceptions that folks 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.000 might have about what the 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.000 First Amendment requires but 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.000 as I was preparing like I said 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.000 I've done this before so I've 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.000 been cutting and pasting class 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.000 notes -- but over the summer 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:27.000 came across an article in 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.000 The Atlantic entitled 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.000 which basically was my 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.000 ready made presentation so I 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.000 I'm giving credit to Ken White 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.000 from that article I'm gonna 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.000 steal his headings and kind of 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:41.000 go through four misstatements 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.000 that many of us make about 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.000 the First Amendment and kind of 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.000 give some context to them 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.000 but I wanted to -- -- attribute 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.000 him and that -- and 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:50.000 that article because it seemed 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.000 really concise and ready 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.000 made for this presentation so 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.000 four misstatements misstatement 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.000 number one not all speech is 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.000 protected there are exceptions 00:12:59.000 --> 00:12:61.000 to the First Amendment so 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:02.000 that's an argument many people 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.000 use to say you can squelch 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:05.000 speech because a -- 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.000 the Supreme Court has recognized 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.000 exceptions and certainly they 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.000 have there are exceptions to 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.000 the First Amendment but 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.000 that argument is not the end 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.000 argument it misses the point 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.000 the point of it is is not to 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.000 not that the Supreme Court 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.000 is going to go and create 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:20.000 all these new exceptions if 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.000 we confront speech that we 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.000 do not like and we want to 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.000 prohibit it or to squelch 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.000 it we would need to find an 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.000 exception that applies it's an 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.000 important distinction to make 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.000 the Supreme Court is not now 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:32.000 in the business of creating 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.000 new exceptions so if something 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.000 happens we need to look what the 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.000 Supreme Court has said and 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.000 and determine whether or not 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.000 the speech may be regulated 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:41.000 those exceptions are 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:45.000 obscenity defamation fraud 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.000 imminent incitement of violence 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:48.000 and true threats those are 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.000 basically the five times the 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.000 Supreme Court would say okay 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.000 you can limit speech remember though 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:55.000 in Oregon some of those are not 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.000 available to us under the state 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.000 constitution so while the First 00:13:59.000 --> 00:13:61.000 Amendment is rather -- the 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:02.000 exceptions to First Amendment 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.000 jurisprudence are quite narrow 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.000 they're even more narrow for 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:07.000 us in public entities in the 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.000 state of Oregon less than a 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:11.000 decade ago in a case called 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.000 United States versus Stevens 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:14.000 the United States Supreme Court 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.000 had another opportunity to 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.000 revisit this in a case where 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.000 there was a criminal statute 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.000 that prohibited the -- a video 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.000 depiction of animal cruelty 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:24.000 and in an 8-1 decision 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:25.000 the Supreme Court said we're 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.000 not creating another exception 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.000 if you want to ban this type 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.000 of behavior you've got to fit it 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.000 into an exception that 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.000 we already have they stated 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.000 our decisions in these cases 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.000 cannot be taken as establishing 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.000 a freewheeling authority 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:40.000 to declare new categories of 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.000 speech outside the scope of 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.000 the First Amendment so less 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.000 than a decade ago the Supreme 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.000 Court had a chance to create 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:48.000 a new exception or broaden an 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.000 exception and it said we're 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.000 not going to do it 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.000 misstatement number two this speech 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.000 isn't protected because you 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:58.000 can't shout fire in a crowded 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.000 theater we've heard that 00:14:59.000 --> 00:14:61.000 ubiquitous line all of the 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:02.000 time when we talk about the 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:03.000 First Amendment and it came 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.000 from Schenck versus the United States 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:06.000 it's important to recognize 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.000 where that case came from 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.000 it's with World War I 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.000 and Mister Schenck was 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.000 advocating people not 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.000 to join the draft to be drafted 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.000 to go fight World War I 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.000 he was convicted and 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.000 imprisoned under the Espionage Act 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.000 and the Supreme Court of 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.000 the time unanimously held that 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.000 they could do that so in the 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.000 time of war Mr. Schencks made 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:27.000 an argument that you can't 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:28.000 squelch my expression and the 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.000 Supreme Court's said yes we 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.000 can the importance of shouting 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:35.000 fire in a crowded theater 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.000 though now that analysis is 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.000 basically defunct and so using 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.000 that argument in the 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:44.000 what we can and cannot do under 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.000 the First Amendment has been 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.000 basically been debunked 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.000 by sixty years of jurisprudence 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:50.000 where the Supreme Court has 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.000 narrowed and narrowed and narrowed the 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.000 exceptions that are at our -- 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.000 our disposal so as the author 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.000 of The Atlantic article stated 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.000 so when you drop the you 00:15:59.000 --> 00:15:60.000 can't shout fire in a crowded 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.000 theater in a First Amendment 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.000 debate you're misquoting an 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.000 empty rhetorical device uttered 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.000 by a career totalitarian in 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:09.000 a long overturned case about 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.000 jailing draft protesters 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.000 this is not helpful so it's 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.000 shouldn't use nowadays because 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:17.000 the Supreme Court itself has 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.000 abandoned that line of inquiry 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.000 misstatement number three we 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.000 must balance free speech with 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.000 fill in the blank social good 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.000 or we must determine there's 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.000 a line between free speech 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:32.000 and fill in the blanks some 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.000 social ill it's increasingly 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.000 common in other 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:38.000 legal arguments and sometimes 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.000 legally that we can balance 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.000 we can say this is so bad 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.000 that we have to balance that 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.000 against our obligations to the 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.000 First Amendment or conversely 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.000 this social good is so good 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:50.000 to the preservation and the 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:51.000 health of our society that 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.000 you've got to be able to limit 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.000 the First Amendment right and 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.000 the answer is no and again in 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.000 United States versus Stevens 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:60.000 the animal cruelty case the 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.000 court stated unambiguously 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.000 the government thus proposes 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.000 that a claim of categorical 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.000 exclusion should be considered 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.000 under a simple balancing test 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.000 whether a given category of 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.000 speech enjoys First Amendment 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.000 protection depends on a 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.000 categorically balancing of 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:18.000 that value of the speech 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.000 against its societal costs 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.000 as a free floating test 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:24.000 of First Amendment coverage 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.000 that sentence is startling 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.000 and dangerous the First 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.000 Amendment's guarantee of free 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.000 speech does not extend only to 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.000 the categories of speech that 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.000 survive an ad hoc balancing 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.000 of relative social costs and 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.000 benefits the First Amendment 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.000 itself reflects a judgment by 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.000 the American people that the 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.000 benefits of its restrictions on 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.000 the government outweigh those 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.000 costs our Constitution 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.000 forecloses any attempts to revise 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.000 that judgment simply on the 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.000 basis that some speech isn't 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.000 worth it so to summarize when 00:17:59.000 --> 00:17:60.000 someone tried to say we have 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.000 all these good things in life 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.000 is changing and society is 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.000 changing and for sure to uphold 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.000 these important things we must 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:09.000 be able to limit the freedom 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.000 of expression just a little bit 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:12.000 the Supreme Court has rejected 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.000 balancing tests in protecting 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.000 our rights of the 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.000 First Amendment and finally 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.000 the fourth misstatement 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.000 perhaps most germane to this 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.000 conversation today is hate 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.000 speech is not free speech 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:26.000 and particularly in the last 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.000 ten years and frequently on 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.000 university campuses we've 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:30.000 confronted this surely 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.000 hate speech is one of those 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.000 exceptions right and again the 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.000 Supreme Court has answered this 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.000 no -- and I'll go through four 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.000 cases very briefly that show 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:40.000 since 1992 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.000 to its evolution the Supreme Court 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.000 has not defined hate speech and 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.000 has not created an exception 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.000 for hate speech however we 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.000 may define that first in 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.000 R.A.V versus St. Paul the city 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.000 of St. Paul, Minnesota in 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.000 bias ordinance that said that 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.000 if you aroused anger resentment 00:18:58.000 --> 00:18:60.000 or agitation under certain 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.000 categories race gender national 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.000 origin you could be convicted 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.000 under this ordinance and after 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.000 three teenagers burned a cross 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:09.000 on the lawn of their next 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.000 door neighbor who is African American 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.000 they were convicted 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.000 under that anti bias statute the 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:16.000 Minnesota Supreme Court said 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.000 sure those are fighting words 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:19.000 I found an exception and I put 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.000 this behavior in that exception 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.000 a done deal the convictions 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.000 were upheld the Supreme Court 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.000 reversed the Supreme Court 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:26.000 said that if you 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.000 unpack that ordinance 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.000 it's said that you can't do 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.000 certain things on the basis 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.000 of race you can't do something 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.000 on the basis of gender to 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.000 insight or arouse anger but 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:36.000 you can do it on the basis 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.000 of sexual orientation and you 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.000 could do it on the basis of 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:41.000 other things and what the Supreme 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.000 Court said was the ordinance 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:45.000 was overbroad you can't pick 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.000 the bad view points that you 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.000 want to regulate so the cross 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.000 burning ordinance in 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.000 St. Paul was overturned 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.000 In 2003 in 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:54.000 Virginia versus Black there was another 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.000 prospering statute and what 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.000 that statute says was if you 00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:60.000 were to burn a cross that is 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.000 prima facie evidence of the 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.000 intent to intimidate someone 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.000 on a protected status 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:08.000 and so someone was convicted 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.000 under that statute and what 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.000 the Supreme Court said was is 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.000 that it can't be prima facie evidence 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.000 it is it could be and it's 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.000 the prosecutor's job to do 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.000 that so if I burned a cross on 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.000 someone's lawn it would be 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.000 the prosecutor's job to say 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.000 look at Ryan's email look 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.000 at the other things he did 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.000 look what he did afterwards 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.000 look we told his next door 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.000 neighbor but it cannot be 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.000 that very fact that I burned the 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.000 cross cannot be prima facie 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.000 evidence that I intended to 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:36.000 intimidate somebody therefore 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.000 that statute is over broad and 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.000 was found unconstitutional 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.000 on First Amendment grounds 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.000 third in 2011 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.000 in Snyder versus Phelps 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:47.000 Fred Phelps in the Westboro Baptist Church 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:48.000 many might be familiar 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.000 with them they go to military 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.000 funerals and protest the evils 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.000 of homosexuality -- 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.000 Mr. Snyder was a gay man 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.000 himself and his son a United 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.000 States Marine died fighting 00:20:59.000 --> 00:20:61.000 in the Iraq War and the Phelps 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:02.000 and the Westboro Baptist Church 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.000 protested at his funeral 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.000 Mr. Snyder wanted to sue Phelps 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.000 and the Westboro Baptist Church 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.000 for the intentional infliction 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.000 of emotional distress however 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.000 the United States Supreme Court in an 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:15.000 it was a matter of public 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.000 concern and the protest was on 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.000 public property and therefore 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.000 the First Amendment squarely 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.000 protected that activity and 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000 finally under Matal versus Tam 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.000 in 2017 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.000 so just two years ago the 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.000 Lanham Act which 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.000 is statute that 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.000 talks about a trademarks 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.000 the Office of Patent 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.000 of Trademarks will not issue a 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.000 trademark for something that 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.000 disparages someone on the basis 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000 of a person an institution 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.000 belief for national symbols so 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.000 someone might submit something 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.000 that is perhaps racist up to 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.000 this point but under the Lanham Act 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.000 office said you don't get 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.000 protection you don't get 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.000 trademark protection on that 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.000 in 2017 the United States Supreme Court 00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:60.000 unanimously held the Lanham Act 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.000 was unconstitutional a punk 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.000 rock band made up of members 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:05.000 of Asian descent wanted to 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:07.000 call their band the slants 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.000 which was a commentary on -- 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:10.000 derogatory terms about -- their 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.000 facial features and eyes 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000 and so they submitted 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.000 the name of their band 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.000 as the slants it was denied by 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.000 the trademark office and the 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.000 punk rock group prevailed 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.000 unanimously at the Supreme Court 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:22.000 saying that we're not going to 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:23.000 be in the business of saying 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.000 what is or is not racist 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:26.000 when we're issuing trademarks 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.000 that's the First Amendment 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.000 does not permit that so those are 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.000 kind of the landscape I 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.000 tried to show you is that under the 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.000 First Amendment and particularly 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.000 Article 1 Section 8 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.000 of the Oregon Constitution 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.000 there are exceptions to the 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.000 freedom of expression but 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.000 they are exceptionally narrow 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.000 and as a public agency we are 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.000 not only responsible for 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:46.000 that First Amendment we are 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:48.000 responsible for the even 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.000 more strict and protective 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:50.000 Article 1 Section 8 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:58.000 of the Oregon Constitution 00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.000 okay and I'm sure there will 00:22:59.000 --> 00:22:60.000 be a number of questions for 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.000 you as well Ryan thanks -- 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.000 Erik as we enter a new school 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.000 year we face the potential for 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.000 controversial speakers or 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:08.000 other events that might touch 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.000 on some of these issues of free 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.000 speech and so forth can you 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.000 share what you learned last 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.000 year in your role and how that 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000 might affect how you and student 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:17.000 leadership might respond this 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:18.000 year if something similar 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.000 were to happen -- definitely 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.000 so -- first -- my role -- 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:27.000 at the end of last year was 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.000 both as Vice President of ASWOU 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:31.000 and as the president 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.000 elect for the upcoming year 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.000 Mr. Gibson's event actually 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.000 happened on my first day as 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:42.000 ASWOU president which was very 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.000 interesting times -- -- what -- 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.000 before I address directly 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.000 I can't go over -- in as good 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.000 of detail the legal analysis as 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.000 Ryan did or about emergency 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:60.000 preparedness like Rebecca did 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.000 talk a little bit about is the 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.000 philosophy of government which 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.000 as -- Dr. Cassity 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.000 pointed out is perhaps the 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.000 one thing I can speak on as a 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.000 philosophy major -- so what I 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.000 hold to be the core principle 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.000 of all government whether it's 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:22.000 government like my sister 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.000 is currently a part of in her 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.000 middle school whether it's a 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.000 high school government student 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.000 government on university state 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.000 local federal any form of 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.000 government the core principle 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.000 of government is creating safe 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.000 places for people to live and 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.000 to congregate specifically 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.000 to student -- specifically 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:44.000 to student government which 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.000 is under -- and was under my 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.000 purview that students have the 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.000 right to learn in a supportive 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:52.000 campus environment they have a 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.000 right to learn in a safe place 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.000 an important distinction 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.000 that I want to make is a safe 00:24:59.000 --> 00:24:61.000 place does not mean the same 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:05.000 place for everybody -- for 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.000 a decade student government 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:09.000 here on campus has overseen 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.000 multiple clubs multiple groups 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.000 of differing ideology and for 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.000 for the most part we've managed 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.000 to keep everyone feeling -- 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.000 for everyone to feel safe -- 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.000 that does not once again that 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.000 does not mean the same place 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.000 it can be in the same place 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.000 ideologies over whatever topic 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.000 come together and engage in 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.000 civil discourse it is when 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.000 discourse becomes uncivil 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.000 that that same place is not a 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.000 safe place for everyone -- 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.000 so what -- specifically going 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.000 back with that in mind going 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:53.000 back to answer the specifics 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.000 of the -- Dr. Cassity's 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.000 question -- what I wish what 00:25:59.000 --> 00:25:60.000 what I wish I had known 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:02.000 in the build up to this 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.000 event -- -- what I wish some 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.000 more time had been taken -- was 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:09.000 thinking specifically about the 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.000 language -- used specifically 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.000 in -- the Senate resolution 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.000 that was paired with multiple 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.000 letters now -- -- for a basic 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.000 overview of -- for basic 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.000 overview of how ASWOU runs as 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.000 Vice President and President 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.000 Elect I had nothing to do with 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.000 the Senate resolution directly 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.000 I do take responsibility 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.000 for the language in both 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.000 specific letters joint letters 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:35.000 from administration from the 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.000 ASWOU administration as I'm 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.000 the one who wrote those -- but I 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.000 think -- the important things 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.000 to pull out of that -- 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.000 Senate resolution that I would 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000 keep under every circumstances 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.000 is it directly 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.000 says students do have a right 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.000 to learn in a supportive campus 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.000 environment and that's what a 00:26:59.000 --> 00:26:60.000 and once again I think that's 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.000 a cornerstone of what ASWOU 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:05.000 can do to protect -- students' 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.000 rights to feel safe on campus 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.000 tried to do with those letters 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:20.000 colleagues and I -- which I 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.000 think -- -- as a as a matter 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.000 of personal satisfaction I 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.000 guess I think it was the first 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.000 time ever that there was a 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.000 joint administrative letters 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.000 from -- two different ASWOU 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.000 administrations -- so we managed 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:38.000 to do that twice -- but -- 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.000 what I tried to do with those 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:41.000 letters is balance out the 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:43.000 important distinction between 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:49.000 talking to college students is 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.000 civil discourse specifically 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:54.000 to this event it was all of 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.000 the speculation it was all of 00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.000 the threats it was all of 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:60.000 the internet drama that led 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.000 us to believe that this would 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.000 not be an event where 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000 civil discourse would happen 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.000 uncivil discourse would happen 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.000 and therefore that was leading 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:12.000 to students having feeling 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.000 unsafe on campus and that's 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.000 what led us to take the actions 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.000 that we did -- I'll leave it 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.000 right there but I'd be 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:21.000 happy to answer any questions 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:27.000 about anything specific 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.000 before we get to audience -- 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:30.000 questions I have a question 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.000 for any one of you that 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000 feels you can 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.000 speak to this -- could you 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.000 tell us a little bit about 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.000 the logistics and approval 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.000 processes that are involved in 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:46.000 having a speaker come to campus 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.000 do you want to handle the response I can handle part 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:50.000 of it and I might call people 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.000 come I mean I think that what 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:53.000 what's -- there's 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:54.000 a substantial process and 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.000 consultation process and Gary 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:57.000 or Megan or Patrick might 00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.000 be able to help me there so 00:28:59.000 --> 00:28:61.000 there is a process in advance 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:02.000 particularly when it comes to 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.000 student organizations so there 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.000 there's a -- there 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.000 there's a process there which 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.000 includes a consultation when 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.000 that happens it comes to -- 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:11.000 to my office and there's a 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:13.000 facilities use agreement that 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.000 we require of speakers to 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:16.000 to fill out and that's even 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.000 if it's free I mean -- if 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.000 if there's no room charge or 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.000 anything like that nonetheless 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.000 we want the -- 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.000 the speaker coming on campus 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.000 to know what we expect of 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.000 speakers and so I mean I will 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:28.000 give you a -- 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.000 examples that that facility the 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.000 top page of that facilities use 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.000 agreement has you know what you're 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:34.000 doing when you're speaking 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.000 what time all the logistics 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.000 the terms and conditions 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000 are what are important and 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.000 and one of the clauses of that 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.000 of that agreement says here are 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.000 the multiplicity of policies that we 00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.000 expect you to uphold two 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.000 days after this was announced 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:49.000 we discover the use of our logo 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.000 on social media posts from I 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:52.000 can't remember Erik can help 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.000 me either Proud Boys or some 00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.000 Patriot Prayer because of that 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.000 facility's use agreement we 00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:60.000 swiftly moved into action said 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.000 that comes down look at the 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.000 agreement you signed you're not 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.000 allowed to use our intellectual 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.000 property to convey the notion 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.000 that the university opposes 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:09.000 or supports this if this is 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.000 a neutral inquiry and 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:13.000 quickly our logo was taken down 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.000 so I think that that's -- 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.000 someone else can help me with 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000 the first part of it but once 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.000 that it's approved and there's 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:21.000 a consultation and everything the 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000 the speaker him or herself 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.000 must sign the facilities use 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:26.000 agreement which includes terms 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:27.000 and conditions on the back 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:29.000 of what we expect in a policy 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.000 environment on this campus and 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.000 in fact in this instant it was 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.000 it was used to dialogue with 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000 the speaker to tell him that 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:39.000 there was activity that we 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:40.000 thought was contrary to that 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.000 and we expected our intellectual 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.000 property our logos to be 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:48.000 removed from any advertisements 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:49.000 from my vantage point 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.000 during those days when we were 00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.000 scheduled so we became aware of 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.000 it roughly two weeks before the 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:59.000 event -- -- and then we were 00:30:59.000 --> 00:30:61.000 engaged in -- the facilities 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:02.000 use agreement that -- Ryan 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:05.000 spoke to we wanted to be sure 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.000 as we met in planning that 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.000 we were following the same 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:09.000 protocol and the same process the 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.000 same approval steps for this 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.000 event as any other event -- 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.000 and I can assure you that 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.000 that's what was done -- 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.000 by the various folks who 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.000 some of whom are at the table here but also 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:23.000 many who were in the background 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.000 working on these issues -- and to 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.000 the points that I think Ryan stated 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.000 around the other test that we 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.000 were carefully evaluating -- 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000 almost on a daily basis -- was 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.000 what was the safety risk 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.000 of hosting this event going 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.000 back to the idea of specific 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.000 eminent serious harm as a way 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.000 in which you could censor or 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:52.000 restrict speech -- that was 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.000 a major lens for the various 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.000 meetings that we had in my 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.000 president's conference room around 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:02.000 said this is one of the events 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.000 where we did have prior notice so 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.000 we had time to gain information 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.000 deliberate -- push and pull on 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.000 the argument we also engaged 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.000 outside counsel -- to help 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.000 verify the positions that we 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:15.000 were taking to be sure that we 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.000 weren't going off track with 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:19.000 regard to the current state 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.000 of the law when it comes to free 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:23.000 speech both in Oregon and in 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.000 the United States -- so there 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:28.000 was a lot of deliberation 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.000 satisfied everyone certainly 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.000 but it was very careful 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:37.000 and I'll say deliberate 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000 and do you have any 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:39.000 thing to add from a public safety 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.000 standpoint on preparations 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:45.000 Rebecca you know just to 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:48.000 add to Fuller's point just the 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:54.000 deliberate -- safety is the 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.000 the driving force of this of 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:60.000 of you know making sure that 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.000 all participants including 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:03.000 Joey Gibson are safe right 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.000 so I mean he has just 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:06.000 as much a right to safety as 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.000 anybody else and so that's all 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.000 again we're neutral -- but 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.000 we're here to provide safety 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.000 and provide those -- kind of 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.000 environments -- for free speech 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:23.000 to take place to occur 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:24.000 okay and we have microphones 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.000 available on each side of the 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.000 room if folks would like to 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:34.000 come forward and ask questions 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.000 hello my name is Gustavo 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.000 Guerrero I'm a student here 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.000 at Western part of the student 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.000 body government and I do have 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:43.000 a few questions and this is 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.000 just to anybody that can answer 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:47.000 them so given the last case 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:48.000 study how are you going to move 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.000 forward with another controversial 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.000 speaker because it is in my 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.000 view that the actions that the 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.000 administration and the 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:58.000 student body government took last year to 00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:60.000 to continuously send emails 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.000 out to the student body about 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:03.000 avoiding the WUC avoiding 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.000 attending the speakers -- -- 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:08.000 presentation and avoiding the 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:09.000 just the area in general I 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.000 believe that that created more 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.000 of a danger for the students 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.000 that were in attendance and 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.000 for the speaker himself than if 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000 you had just let him arrive on 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.000 campus without notice and just 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.000 taken the proper precautions 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.000 without having to alert 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.000 the campus to such a degree so 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:26.000 my question is how was the 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.000 how is the administration 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:29.000 going to move forward next 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.000 time there's a controversial 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:37.000 quote unquote controversial speaker 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.000 I'll speak to the you know 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.000 the administration that I represent 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.000 and the letter that 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.000 my office sent was sent -- 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.000 on May 30th and it tried to 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.000 outline -- the reasons why this 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.000 event was going to go forward 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.000 I think in the meantime there 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.000 were other communications 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.000 going out that you've alluded 00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:60.000 to -- in this book that I 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.000 have referenced earlier -- 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.000 is an alternative event 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.000 that -- some universities 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.000 have decided to do I was on 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000 a campus where the Westboro 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.000 Church -- made a presentation 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.000 and at that campus there was 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:15.000 a decision made to hold an 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:18.000 alternative event to present a counter view 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.000 those are some of the 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:21.000 the ways in which you can 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.000 respond effectively -- the 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.000 others is to simply host 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.000 the event and let those 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.000 who wish to attend attend -- 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.000 and -- let it go 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.000 as if it's a normal business 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:34.000 day so to speak -- but is I 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.000 went back and re read my 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.000 letter which I brought with me 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:40.000 emphasized the points that Ryan talked 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.000 about with regard to the fact 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.000 that this event was going to 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:44.000 go forward and the university 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.000 has a responsibility to be 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:49.000 neutral in its position -- 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:51.000 when we were being asked by -- 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.000 individual faculty about -- -- 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:57.000 safety and cancelling classes 00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:58.000 those are individual decisions 00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:60.000 where we said if the faculty member 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.000 felt like it was unsafe then 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.000 they should not come to campus 00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.000 that day that's an individual 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:06.000 decision that's no different 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.000 than a decision made around 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:09.000 any sort of -- perceived or 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.000 imminent threat that might be 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.000 the case students were also 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.000 at a point where they could 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:16.000 notify their faculty about 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.000 their safety concerns and 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.000 I'm hoping the faculty would 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.000 respond to that in a positive 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:25.000 way -- and so the provost or 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:27.000 the president's office doesn't 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.000 cancel classes in situations 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:33.000 like this and we leave it at 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.000 the discretion of faculty 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.000 members I do know some faculty 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.000 chose to cancel classes and 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.000 not come to campus that day 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.000 because of their perception 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.000 of what could happen -- and 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:44.000 that's that notion 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.000 that Erik talk about of 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:48.000 saying if it goes badly how bad 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:49.000 could it be we're speculating 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.000 a bit and I think that's where 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:52.000 the -- people have to make 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.000 individual judgments and I -- 00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.000 I am comfortable that those 00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.000 judgments were sound and the 00:36:59.000 --> 00:36:61.000 cases for those who decided 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.000 to stay away and for those 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.000 who came to campus I'm comfortable that 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.000 those decisions had merit and 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.000 and soundness as well I'm 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.000 hoping I'm responsive to 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:10.000 you but there was no directive 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:13.000 from my office -- to stay 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:14.000 away there was no directive 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.000 to hold a particular event 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000 I really think that that has 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.000 to be part of a culture 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.000 of response and critical 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:23.000 thinking -- that is part of 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.000 the university experience 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.000 thank you and I'd like to 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.000 go head Gustavo and offer 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.000 my input to that question -- 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.000 to your point -- what 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.000 it was that - was the so many 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:40.000 communications coming out 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:41.000 especially from the student 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.000 government end did that help 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.000 add to the sense of -- of 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.000 dread about the event yes it 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:51.000 it most likely did what 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:54.000 I'd like to offer -- -- if 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.000 I can -- paraphrase -- from 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:59.000 his inaugural presidential address 00:37:59.000 --> 00:37:63.000 George H.W. Bush he says he mentions when 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.000 he's talking about freedom 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.000 that a cornerstone of freedom 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.000 is the exercise of free will 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.000 unhampered -- President 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.000 that students were able to 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.000 make a decision about their 00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:18.000 safety they were able to 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.000 exercise their free will with 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.000 the information they were 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.000 given I contend that those 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.000 letters -- while maybe could 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.000 have done been -- done 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.000 more tactfully could have had 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:31.000 better language in them the 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:33.000 point of the letters was to 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.000 give at least the students 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.000 student government's purview 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.000 the information they needed 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.000 to make decisions about their 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.000 safety follow up question to 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:46.000 anybody that -- I guess would 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.000 be able to respond once again 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:49.000 the reason I ask these 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:51.000 questions is because as Ryan Hagemann 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.000 indicated in his analysis of freedom 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:57.000 of speech jurisprudence 00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.000 freedom of speech doesn't just 00:38:59.000 --> 00:38:60.000 pertain to speech that you 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.000 agree with it pertains to all 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.000 speech radical or not and it 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.000 was I was part of the student 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.000 body government last year 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.000 that advocated for -- allowing 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:12.000 him to come even though I was 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.000 opposed to his views I believe 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:17.000 that continuously pressing and 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.000 focusing in on some language 00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:21.000 that I believe -- is being referred 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.000 to describing Joey Gibson 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:24.000 I believe that that was -- 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.000 incidences that were only 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.000 going to exasperate the situation 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.000 and as it did at first it was 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.000 just a few people that heard 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.000 of him during that prior 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:35.000 to his arrival and then once 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:36.000 the messages started coming 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.000 in whether they were from the 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.000 administration or the ASWOU 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.000 government we started hearing 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.000 more talk about him on campus 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.000 and it led to -- there 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.000 being a completely full room 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.000 where the event was being held 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.000 and it -- even flooded to the 00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.000 outside and the reason 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.000 I was concerned about that 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.000 is because I saw the tension 00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:56.000 that was created from it 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.000 students were being screamed 00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:61.000 at recorded outside of the 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.000 meeting room and I had warned 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.000 the ASWOU administration 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:06.000 which I was actually a part 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.000 of at that time that this was 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.000 going to happen so hearing 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:10.000 everything that's going on 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.000 from today's panel 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.000 the steps that you will be 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.000 taking for future events such 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:20.000 as these is a little bit of -- a little bit -- 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:29.000 don't know the word -- it's 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.000 it's good it's I couldn't 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.000 think of the word but it makes 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.000 me feel a little bit better 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.000 about the decision making 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.000 process because -- in this 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.000 like in the previous case 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.000 study that we saw nothing good 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.000 came out of trying to silence 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:46.000 or curtail speech that we 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:48.000 didn't like and if the steps 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.000 that the administration is 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.000 taking are truthful 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.000 in what they are saying on 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:54.000 this panel then -- I'm happy 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:56.000 to hear that and I'll say 00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.000 something real quick about 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.000 the safety portion of 00:40:59.000 --> 00:40:61.000 that and people who had been afraid 00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.000 and you all know I will send 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:03.000 you an email in a heartbeat if 00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:08.000 we got a cougar coming across campus 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.000 I mean I'm gonna let you know 00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.000 about those things right we're 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:16.000 gonna - I mean I have a duty 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.000 to inform folks right not 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:21.000 just I can't we can't guarantee 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.000 a safe experience here 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.000 all the time but if we know 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:26.000 something's happening 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.000 and we know that it puts people 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.000 at risk we're gonna inform 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.000 that's part of what we 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:33.000 do is to make sure people are 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.000 educated and can make informed 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.000 decisions -- about any given 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.000 situation and so -- that's 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:43.000 that's what you know there 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.000 wasn't a lot out of my 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:48.000 office on that because of all 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.000 the information that we had all 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.000 the intelligence gathered all 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.000 the talking to Portland Police Bureau 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.000 that dealt with him and 00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.000 his group all the time -- all 00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:60.000 the other universities that 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:03.000 he had been at no incidences 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.000 of violence I'm doing all of 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:06.000 our homework on those things 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000 and seeing there was not a 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:10.000 high propensity for violence at 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:11.000 this particular event on our 00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:13.000 campus if there would have 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:14.000 been there would have been 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:15.000 different language coming 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:18.000 to folks from us saying this 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.000 could -- be it 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.000 it wouldn't necessarily depend 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.000 on what it was stop the event 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:26.000 because it still would possibly 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:27.000 cover it but we would still have 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.000 some things in place and some 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000 some information out about 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.000 there's possibilities there -- 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.000 and -- we just weren't seeing that 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.000 it just wasn't there 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:39.000 thank you for your responses I 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.000 don't have any more questions 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.000 and thank you for your time 00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.000 today so I have a question 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.000 to what you said about there not 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.000 being safety risks I understand 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.000 that Joey Gibson has been 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.000 associated with multiple riots 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:52.000 especially in the Portland 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.000 area and I'm wondering why the 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:55.000 administration specifically 00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:57.000 didn't have more communication 00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.000 with the students specifically 00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:59.000 about their safety because I 00:42:59.000 --> 00:42:61.000 know faculty -- were 00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:02.000 told that they were able to 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:03.000 not go to classes but I don't 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:05.000 remember specifically students 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.000 feeling that they were able to 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:08.000 not go to classes or not be on 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:10.000 campus in a space in which they 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:12.000 had a view that he was unsafe 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.000 because I know that there is 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.000 a more informed perspective 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:16.000 from the administration and 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.000 they got to look and research 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:18.000 they got fully understand 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.000 it but I feel like students got 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:21.000 this one perspective that 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.000 it was unsafe and they did 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.000 not necessarily know how to 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:25.000 handle that and that they had the 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.000 option to not come on campus 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.000 I appreciate that feedback -- I 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:32.000 think that that's an important 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.000 distinction -- that maybe 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.000 that's something we can do 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:39.000 differently or do better next 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.000 time -- when there's a next 00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:43.000 time to come back and say what 00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.000 things that we know to be 00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.000 certain in this world -- but 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.000 you know things that -- 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.000 the information that we gather 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:55.000 to a certain point that we can 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:58.000 share -- to put that out 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:61.000 so all the information's out I 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.000 appreciate you saying that thank you 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.000 yeah -- I was -- say what you want 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.000 about the person themselves 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.000 I think it was more important 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:09.000 that you guys were communicating 00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:11.000 to us about the safety and 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:12.000 that we were allowed to do 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.000 what we wanted safety wise 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.000 because it doesn't necessarily 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:17.000 have to be about the general 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:18.000 concept of this event it 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:19.000 could be you're allowed to 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:28.000 not go to campus if you don't feel safe 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000 so -- you -- I know 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.000 I understand that 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.000 constitutional rights obviously 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.000 supersede everything else 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.000 but we do have as a school 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:39.000 internally we have values and 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.000 we have rules that we have 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:42.000 decided to adhere to -- 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:43.000 some of those include 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.000 diversity and respect -- community 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:47.000 which according to our website 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:48.000 is defined as a trustworthy 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.000 caring safe environment for 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:51.000 the cultivation of peace 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.000 civility and social justice 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:56.000 so my question is not so much 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.000 about physical safety as much 00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:59.000 as emotional well being and 00:44:59.000 --> 00:44:61.000 emotional safety -- because you 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:02.000 mentioned earlier alternative 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.000 events as one -- potential 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.000 these controversial 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:11.000 speakers on campus -- but I 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:12.000 noticed during the time that 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:13.000 all of the alternative events 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:15.000 were coming from individual 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.000 organizations such as the 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:18.000 Stonewall Center -- the Writing 00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.000 Center hosted over fifty 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.000 people who were legitimately 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:24.000 distressed -- I personally work 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.000 with many students -- many of 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.000 my friends expressed extreme 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.000 discomfort people left campus 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.000 to stay in hotels -- faculty 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:34.000 members as you mentioned stayed 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.000 away and so my question is 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.000 as the administration and as 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:38.000 the people who are in charge 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:40.000 of the school and have the power 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:42.000 what are you doing -- or what 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.000 will you do in the future when 00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.000 things like this occur -- to 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.000 ensure that we are actually 00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:49.000 upholding our values that we 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:50.000 have asserted and to ensure 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.000 that you are creating a safe 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:53.000 and welcoming environment for 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.000 everyone -- and that we are not 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.000 sacrificing especially minority 00:45:58.000 --> 00:45:60.000 students especially students 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:01.000 of color who had to miss class 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.000 directly before finals I do 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.000 want to emphasize that this 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.000 was Dead Week -- and people 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.000 were debating whether to miss 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.000 class some of them missing tests 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.000 missing crucial last review 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:13.000 days -- because they felt so 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.000 unsafe and so unwelcome I 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.000 saw so many people break down 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:18.000 in tears because they felt 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.000 just absolutely unwelcomed 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.000 in their community and unsafe 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:24.000 around the people that they 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.000 are you as the administration 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:28.000 going to do in the future 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:29.000 to reinforce our values and 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:33.000 reinforce that we are welcoming 00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:35.000 I think this decision that was 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:36.000 made you've heard 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.000 about some of the lenses 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:39.000 or the factors that -- weighed 00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:41.000 into the decision and in the 00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:43.000 end -- it rests with me 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:46.000 an obligation in that role 00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:49.000 as president to also uphold 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:51.000 where the university needs 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.000 to be standing with regard to 00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:53.000 not only legal issues but also with 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.000 regard to our values and in 00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:58.000 this particular case -- after 00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:59.000 weighing all the evidence I 00:46:59.000 --> 00:46:61.000 felt like we could host the event 00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:04.000 safely I felt like we had -- 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.000 agreement -- by the speaker 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.000 to adhere to our rules 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:09.000 of engagement as well as the 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.000 spaces that were provided -- 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.000 I also -- would say to 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:17.000 you that -- part of 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:20.000 this challenge is when people 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:22.000 say things that we find to 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.000 be -- you know -- offensive -- 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:31.000 better response is part of 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:32.000 what I think is the difficult 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:33.000 dialogue which makes freedom 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:35.000 of expression so critical -- 00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:37.000 to what is part of our 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:40.000 our nation's fabric of free 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.000 expression and so I would say 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.000 to you that if we have another 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.000 speaker coming in the future we 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:47.000 will follow a similar protocol 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:49.000 we'll assess it in ways that 00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:50.000 are -- have been described to 00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:53.000 you -- with safety being the 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.000 one lens that would lead us 00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:56.000 to the point where we would -- 00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:60.000 decide to not -- host someone 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.000 and that's around imminent 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.000 safety threats to individuals 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.000 the challenge of course is 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.000 these are -- events which 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:09.000 we know in advance and so we 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.000 have a degree of anticipation 00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:14.000 or speculation that is -- not 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.000 based upon fact but based upon 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:17.000 what we think might happen 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:19.000 and that makes it very very 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.000 difficult I don't know how else to say it to you 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:23.000 except to say that our assessment 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:24.000 was we could host that 00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.000 to escalation -- we had great 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.000 support from law enforcement -- 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:33.000 both -- with our Public Safety 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.000 group being the primary source 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:36.000 on campus but communication 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.000 with not only Portland police 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.000 around the likelihood or 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:43.000 or threat of others coming to 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.000 campus outside -- to follow 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.000 the speaker as well as support 00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:49.000 from local law enforcement 00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.000 did escalate so I'm not sure 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.000 that I can fully respond to 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.000 your concern except to say that 00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:60.000 in the end -- the university 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:03.000 will uphold a community of 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.000 diverse viewpoints and that 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.000 is a broad ranging set of 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:12.000 topics it is not one which is 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.000 me or anyone else so again you've 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:19.000 addressed the physical safety 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:21.000 aspect -- quite a bit but I'm 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:24.000 referring more to the emotional 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:25.000 toll that this takes because 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.000 it is extremely extremely 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.000 distressing to be told that 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.000 you know your event has been 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.000 cancelled your class has been 00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:32.000 canceled because someone is 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:33.000 coming to campus who does not 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.000 believe that you should legally 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.000 be in this country or someone 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.000 is coming to campus who -- does 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:39.000 not believe that you are worth 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:40.000 as much or that your opinion 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:43.000 is valued as much and so it's 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:44.000 not so much that I think you 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:45.000 should have canceled the event I 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:46.000 mean I would have loved to see 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:47.000 that but I understand that that 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:48.000 was incredibly complicated 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.000 and -- I do believe that our 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:52.000 constitutional right should be 00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.000 protected -- but I'm saying in 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.000 the event that another event is 00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:58.000 you know we have forewarning 00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:59.000 you've mentioned over and over 00:49:59.000 --> 00:49:61.000 that you had you know those 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:02.000 those weeks of in advance of 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.000 knowledge -- you know that 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.000 something like this is coming 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:07.000 and you know that they're 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.000 going to be students who feel 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:10.000 unwelcome I understand that you did 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:11.000 take all the measures you could 00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:13.000 to ensure the physical safety 00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:15.000 but what is the administration 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:18.000 going to do specifically to 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.000 present a much stronger stance 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.000 rather than just sending out 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.000 a letter that you know sort 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:27.000 of has these platitudes about 00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:28.000 how we value diversity what 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:29.000 are you doing to show that 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:31.000 you value diversity -- and 00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:33.000 follow up question to that -- 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:34.000 what resources were there 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.000 provided for students such 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:38.000 as you know what emphasis was there on you know 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:39.000 there is free counseling for 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:40.000 students who maybe are facing 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:41.000 distress what emphasis was 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.000 there on -- there -- you know 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:45.000 we have these groups 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.000 that are meeting I know again the 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:48.000 Stonewall Center was -- 00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.000 wonderful to host an event but 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.000 what happens if we don't have 00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:52.000 a Stonewall Center we don't 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.000 have a Writing Center to -- 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.000 host a safe zone event what processes 00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:58.000 are going to be in place to 00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:60.000 ensure that there is a fail safe 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:03.000 resource available for students 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:04.000 well I would say that 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:05.000 that one of things I would hope 00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.000 you could do is take 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.000 a look at the -- on balance the 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.000 statements that -- I've made 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:12.000 on behalf of the university since 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.000 joining the university several 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.000 years ago university -- 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:17.000 has stood firmly and still stands 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:19.000 firmly -- with the right of 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.000 DACA students -- to receive an 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.000 education that has not changed 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.000 event -- we have expanded the 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:30.000 spaces around -- mental health 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:33.000 and counseling by expanding 00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:35.000 the Health Center -- we 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:36.000 have seen expansion of the 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:37.000 Stonewall Center during 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.000 the last few years so I think 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:40.000 those are visible evidence 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:41.000 that the university still 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.000 stands with those opportunities 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:45.000 for students to get the 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:46.000 counseling support that they 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.000 need -- and I don't think this 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.000 particular position or hosting 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.000 this event changed that 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.000 in fact I know all services 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:55.000 were available for students 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.000 during those times -- I don't 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.000 believe that led to -- any sort 00:51:59.000 --> 00:51:61.000 of lack of services because 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.000 of the -- demand that was 00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:04.000 not the information I -- 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.000 in fact I asked about that following 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:09.000 the event -- but I think a 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:12.000 better measure of real values 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.000 is where this university's put 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.000 resources with regard to some 00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:16.000 of these services and I think 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:18.000 if you look at the last five 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:19.000 years we've seen -- increased 00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:21.000 support for these activities 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.000 on balance -- we all would like 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:25.000 more support we'd all like more 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:27.000 resources but I think when you look 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.000 at the way in which those 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:30.000 services are now provided it 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.000 is substantially better today 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.000 than it was four years ago and 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.000 this event hasn't dissuaded 00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:39.000 to see us do more to support 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:41.000 students thank you I appreciate 00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.000 that -- I have another 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:44.000 question because we've talked 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.000 a lot about the importance of 00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.000 spreading information and getting 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:49.000 information out there and also 00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:50.000 the importance of free 00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.000 speech -- so why was it that 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:53.000 around the time of the event 00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:55.000 when faculty and staff were 00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:56.000 attempting to send out mass 00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:57.000 emails to the entire school 00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.000 about this event they were 00:52:59.000 --> 00:52:60.000 being moderated and censored 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.000 and not having their emails sent 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:06.000 be able to talk about 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:09.000 the protocol there's a -- -- 00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:10.000 a way which information can 00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:13.000 be sent out -- there's also a 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:20.000 emails -- that has been 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:21.000 imposed on the university 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.000 or created by the university 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:26.000 several years ago I think 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:28.000 it's going back at least 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.000 beyond -- the event of Joey Gibson 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.000 so the emails were -- 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:34.000 not treated differently they 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:36.000 were under that protocol 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:37.000 so what is that protocol 00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:44.000 then -- is Erin here 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:46.000 hi I'm Erin I'm the 00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:47.000 executive director of advancement 00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:50.000 in WOU Foundation we cover strategic 00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:52.000 communications and marketing as 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:55.000 well so -- the policies around 00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:57.000 reaching out to students 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:58.000 there if you don't know this 00:53:58.000 --> 00:53:59.000 we actually really try to get 00:53:59.000 --> 00:53:61.000 this to students there's two 00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:03.000 ways to reach students -- 00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:06.000 all students email can be 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.000 sent by anyone -- employee or 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:11.000 student it is monitored it 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:12.000 has always been monitored -- 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:14.000 you're -- put into a 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.000 category and then sent out -- 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:18.000 that's monitored through the 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.000 Student Affairs Office students 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:23.000 have to opt in to that email 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:24.000 so that's the message that we 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.000 try to get out to every student 00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:28.000 is you have to select which of 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:29.000 those categories you want to 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:32.000 receive then we created another 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:34.000 email address current students 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.000 at wou.edu for legal and 00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:39.000 other things that we require to 00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:41.000 go out to students immediately 00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:43.000 current students the all 00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:44.000 students email by the way when 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000 you're an alum that stays 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.000 with you so if you've selected 00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.000 to see the events on campus 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:53.000 still receive that category 00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.000 so that stays with you that 00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:56.000 mailing list is actually quite 00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:57.000 large the current students one 00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:59.000 is for anyone that is currently 00:54:59.000 --> 00:54:61.000 enrolled in a -- class 00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:04.000 during that term and that is 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:05.000 protected the intent is that 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:08.000 it goes specific when we need 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:09.000 a legal way and the reason we 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:12.000 don't allow that to go en masse 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.000 or no reply all's is because 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:17.000 we saw and we heard from 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:18.000 students that there was such a 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:19.000 clutter they were missing the 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:21.000 important emails so that 00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:23.000 was the - that's the policy so I 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:24.000 understand that I more meant 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.000 the actual faculty staff the 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:27.000 all faculty or -- I forget 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:28.000 what it is that goes out to 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:30.000 everyone -- multiple faculty 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000 members were discussing how 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:33.000 they had their emails bounce 00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:34.000 back when they were trying to 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.000 talk to other faculty about 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.000 this there -- we have something 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.000 called the WOU internal 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.000 reply all so if they tried to 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.000 reply all they just misused 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:51.000 the system okay thank you sure 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.000 real quick I want to go back to the 00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:56.000 second question -- that was 00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:58.000 asked -- specifically about 00:55:58.000 --> 00:55:61.000 how -- I'd like 00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:03.000 to comment that -- on that 00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.000 question that the silver 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.000 lining that I got out of this 00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:12.000 event was -- the depth of 00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:14.000 concern that students had for 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:16.000 each other during this time of 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.000 crisis I had a list of students 00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.000 who came into my office saying 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.000 my -- here's my name here's 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.000 my number if a student feels 00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.000 uncomfortable that day direct 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.000 them towards me we'll go get 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.000 pizza and we'll play board games 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.000 at my apartment not to mention 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.000 student run organizations -- 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:42.000 providing those safe places 00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.000 those separate places -- safe 00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:47.000 places for students who felt 00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:49.000 effected so -- when we talk 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.000 about community -- I -- 00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.000 definitely considered myself 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.000 a member of the WOU community 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.000 first ASWOU President 00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:57.000 second -- but when it comes 00:56:57.000 --> 00:56:58.000 to upholding the values of 00:56:58.000 --> 00:56:60.000 our community the students 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:05.000 upheld their end of that 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:12.000 hi my name is Josh Salisbury I'm 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.000 a students here on campus and 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:15.000 I'd like this question to go to 00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:16.000 President Fuller as well 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:19.000 as Erik Morgan -- so I'd like to 00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:21.000 shift the conversation -- a 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:22.000 little bit away from whether 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.000 or not we should have given Joey Gibson 00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:27.000 or someone like Joey Gibson a platform here at WOU 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:28.000 because I think -- Ryan already 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:31.000 covered that extensively -- I'd 00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:32.000 like to shift the conversation 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:33.000 to the type of platform we 00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.000 give -- such as speaker so I 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:37.000 think there's a difference 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:39.000 between being neutral and 00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:43.000 being objective -- for example 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:46.000 effect of vaccines we can be 00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:48.000 objective about that without 00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:49.000 giving people with differing 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.000 opinions equal platforms do you 00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:54.000 believe that with controversial 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:55.000 speakers like Joey Gibson that do 00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:57.000 have verifiable connections 00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:58.000 to hate speech and hate 00:57:58.000 --> 00:57:60.000 speech groups that we're obligated 00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.000 to give them a neutral 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:05.000 platform instead of an objective one 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:06.000 can you unpack objective 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:07.000 platform versus neutral 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:08.000 platform for me of 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:13.000 course -- so I think -- 00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:15.000 a neutral platform is -- 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.000 presenting differing values -- 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:22.000 at an equal level -- whereas 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:24.000 more of an objective platform 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:28.000 is recognizing that -- certain 00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.000 things that are verifiable facts 00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.000 can take precedence over -- 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.000 just being neutral I think 00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.000 one of the things that is 00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:39.000 confusing at least some of the 00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:41.000 emails that came to me were 00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:44.000 around the idea that I as 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.000 President had invited him to 00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:48.000 campus and I want to be clear 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:49.000 that that wasn't the case 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:53.000 that was -- he was invited by a 00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:55.000 recognized student organization 00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:58.000 and I think once that student 00:58:58.000 --> 00:58:60.000 organization had fulfilled its 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:02.000 responsibilities for how we'd host an 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:04.000 outside speaker -- even the 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.000 venue -- that was identified 00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:07.000 was at their discretion and their 00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:09.000 choice based upon availability 00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.000 of space within the building 00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:12.000 no different than anyone 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:15.000 else and once we knew the 00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.000 venue and knew the space that 00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:20.000 was going to be used we 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:22.000 included that in our scenarios 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.000 for planning around safety 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:27.000 and opportunity it's not the 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.000 university's responsibility 00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:31.000 as the President at least to have 00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:36.000 guest for a club or speaker we 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:37.000 have many celebration events 00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:38.000 we have guest speakers all the 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:41.000 time on campus and they 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.000 are not opposed in a debate style 00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:46.000 between sort of viewpoints I 00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:49.000 think -- one of the things I'm 00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:50.000 encouraged by this conversation 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:52.000 is that to the extent that 00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:53.000 there are viewpoints expressed 00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:55.000 by Mr. Gibson that we find 00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:57.000 to be -- -- you know abhorrent 00:59:57.000 --> 00:59:59.000 or we find to be without 00:59:59.000 --> 00:59:61.000 base that's the role of the 01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:03.000 university to do due diligence 01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:05.000 and critical thinking -- in 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:06.000 the proper format of doing that 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:08.000 research and due diligence and 01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:10.000 oftentimes it's not at that 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:11.000 moment but rather after the fact 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:13.000 that you're able to dissect 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.000 those arguments and say that 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:16.000 really doesn't hold up I can't 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:20.000 viewpoint and that's what I 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:21.000 meant by in the long term the 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.000 better idea winning it doesn't 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:25.000 necessarily mean that we have to 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:27.000 have them at that very moment 01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:29.000 a point counterpoint exchange 01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:30.000 that's not the style 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.000 that was requested by the club 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.000 you will to invite speakers on 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:38.000 some set of ground rules that 01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:40.000 are appropriate for our policies 01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:42.000 but also appropriate for their reason 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:45.000 for inviting him to campus I 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:46.000 might add also I think from a 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:47.000 legal perspective and you might 01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:48.000 correct me if I'm wrong I might 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.000 be missing the boat entirely 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.000 but from a legal perspective I 01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:55.000 would not find -- it's likely 01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:56.000 I would not find a legally 01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:58.000 defensible distinction between 01:00:58.000 --> 01:00:60.000 neutrality and objectivity 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.000 you said you said verifiable 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:04.000 facts would be on one side 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:06.000 of the equation in my 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:07.000 lens those verifiable facts 01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:08.000 would have to fit into one 01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:10.000 of the exceptions I outlined 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000 for me to legally say this 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.000 person would not be permitted 01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:16.000 I mean factually it was defamatory 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:17.000 factually it was fraudulent 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:19.000 factually it demonstrated 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:21.000 imminent threat but I also said 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:23.000 at the beginning of my remarks 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:24.000 that this -- my contribution 01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:26.000 to these two weeks 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:27.000 when we were in the President's 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:28.000 conference room for six to 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:31.000 eight hours a day -- was 01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:33.000 legal that isn't in the -- 01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:34.000 the inquiry your questions are 01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:36.000 very apropos that doesn't mean that 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:37.000 the values of the community 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.000 are not upheld it's one 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:41.000 data point and we need to 01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:42.000 remember an important 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:43.000 data point because we don't 01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:46.000 want to be sued and pay people like 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:47.000 this lots of money in lawsuits 01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:49.000 but it -- doesn't end 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:50.000 the inquiry about our values 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.000 and things that we can do but 01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:53.000 the neutrality objectivity 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:55.000 thing would also probably hit Ryan's 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:57.000 roadblock -- because if you 01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:59.000 talk about facts I would still 01:01:59.000 --> 01:01:62.000 have to fit him into an exception 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:03.000 that doesn't end the inquiry 01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:04.000 I'm not the only person 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:06.000 at the table there are values there 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.000 are other ways that we need to 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.000 uphold our community like the 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:10.000 president both presidents have 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:15.000 discussed yeah the -- I'm 01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:17.000 not sure I can add much more 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:19.000 to what either President Fuller 01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:21.000 or Ryan has said -- the one 01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:22.000 thing that I can say even 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:26.000 Josh I don't think the 01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:29.000 platform that -- Mr. Gibson 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:31.000 received here was neutral it 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:36.000 it was also not objective 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:43.000 thank you for your answers 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.000 hi I just wanted to thank 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:46.000 you all for your time and 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.000 explaining this to us it's -- 01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:49.000 it's really something 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:51.000 to have this many people come 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.000 up and -- talk to us about so 01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:54.000 many different perspectives the 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:55.000 student perspective the safety perspective 01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:57.000 administration and Dean Cassity is 01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:59.000 up here from the liberal arts department 01:02:59.000 --> 01:02:60.000 and -- it's nice to have it 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:02.000 but I have a question for the 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.000 ASWOU President -- so you 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:07.000 said that you were basing the 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:10.000 fundamentals -- organization 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.000 of ASWOU to be on the basis 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.000 of or was it the principle of 01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.000 safety I'm just like kind of curious 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:20.000 to whereas that philosophy 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:23.000 comes from and I mean you 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:24.000 know I read Plato Aristotle 01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:26.000 any government Thomas Paine 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:28.000 anyone have them almost all in my backpack 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.000 actually right now there's just nothing 01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:31.000 that says about safety even 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:33.000 Social Contract Theory which is the 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:34.000 closest thing to that so I'm just kind 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:35.000 of curious where that comes from 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:38.000 if I may ask that -- sure thing 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:41.000 I mean it's not -- I'm 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:43.000 sure it's documented somewhere 01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:44.000 I'm not claiming to be the 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:46.000 originator of this principle -- 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:47.000 principle by any means -- but 01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:48.000 it but it's something that I've 01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:50.000 gained through experience -- 01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:55.000 conversations about Plato 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:57.000 we can do that separately -- 01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:61.000 but like -- the principles that 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:02.000 you get at when you're talking 01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:03.000 about freedom when you're 01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:06.000 talking about -- forming 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:09.000 governments all of that -- 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:12.000 that has to be based in 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:14.000 some sort of safety you can't 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.000 into one conquerer one king 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:20.000 overcoming another -- so that's 01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.000 where I come from so I mean I'm 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:24.000 not sure if that effectively 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.000 answers your question -- but 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:27.000 it wasn't anywhere you know 01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:29.000 I can't call up a line 01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:35.000 alright thank you appreciate it and I 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:37.000 just want to like thank you guys -- 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.000 for hosting this event you know the Cato 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.000 papers wrote back in the 01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:44.000 board of freedom being freedom 01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:47.000 of speech I didn't attend Joey Gibson 01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:49.000 but I am very well 01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:53.000 talking about ideas that need 01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:55.000 to be heard no matter what -- 01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:56.000 no matter if you don't like 01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:57.000 them because everyone talks 01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:60.000 about solidarity and community and 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.000 diversity if those ideas are 01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:04.000 to survive Joey Gibson those 01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.000 are the ideas we keep so if you 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:08.000 truly value diversity and those 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.000 things then they will survive 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:12.000 conquer his ideas on top that 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:14.000 otherwise we're just the Catholic 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:15.000 Church censoring people and 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:20.000 then we fall so thank you 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.000 yes I have a question from 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:24.000 the for the legal perspective 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:26.000 could clarify for me what 01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:27.000 the constitutional rights 01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:29.000 are to an education without 01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:30.000 discrimination and what rights 01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.000 students do you have to a safe 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.000 environment and an ability to 01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:35.000 engage in campus life equally 01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:38.000 and safely and -- you know to 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:39.000 have that sane environment 01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:41.000 as well as a safe environment 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:46.000 before -- -- the ACLU in a -- 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.000 a -- article that is largely 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.000 defending the right of you know 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:51.000 freedom of speech even when we 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:53.000 disagree with that -- it does 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:54.000 mention that schools must take 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.000 action to remedy behavior that 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:57.000 interferes with a particular 01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:58.000 student's ability to exercise 01:05:58.000 --> 01:05:59.000 their right to participate 01:05:59.000 --> 01:05:60.000 fully in the life of the 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:02.000 university -- and so I was 01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:04.000 wondering if you could clarify 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:05.000 for me where that comes from 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:06.000 and what that means and also 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.000 whether events being canceled 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:09.000 classes being canceled 01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:11.000 events being moved and scheduled 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:12.000 students feeling like they can't 01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:13.000 come to campus and can't walk 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:14.000 down the main street or come 01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:17.000 to town -- if that is anything 01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:19.000 that is being violated by these types of 01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:22.000 things happening so -- you're 01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:23.000 gonna have to forgive me if 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:25.000 I drift into hyper technical 01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:27.000 references please do so most 01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:28.000 of that would probably come 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:30.000 from the Civil Rights Act and 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:31.000 and -- the various kind of 01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:33.000 titles under that which we added 01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:34.000 the discrimination statutes that 01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:36.000 those statutes would be from 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:38.000 our relationship to you and so 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.000 it would be the university would 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:42.000 be required to ensure 01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:44.000 that you're not subject to 01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:45.000 to prohibited discrimination 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:47.000 in the classroom and -- 01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:49.000 and otherwise and so that is 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:51.000 legally what your protections 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:52.000 are vis a vis added 01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:53.000 discrimination I would likely 01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:55.000 discover if I examined case 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:57.000 law that inviting the speaker 01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:59.000 to campus consistent with the 01:06:59.000 --> 01:06:60.000 First Amendment would not be 01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:02.000 a sufficient -- 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:08.000 the university at least to 01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:09.000 an anti discrimination lawsuit 01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:11.000 by you and so I think 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:12.000 certainly -- that is something 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.000 that I lamented through this 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:15.000 entire thing while there was 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:17.000 not daily emails from the 01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:19.000 administration I mean literally 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:20.000 sitting in a conference room for 01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:22.000 six hours with four different 01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:24.000 law enforcement agencies that 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.000 that anyone would think that 01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:27.000 we would not care about this 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.000 the safety both emotional and 01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.000 physical of our students make 01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:33.000 me sad and so I think just from 01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:35.000 a hyper legal perspective 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:36.000 I would say that we would be 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:38.000 in grave danger if we started 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:39.000 banning speakers from campus 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.000 because one or more person 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:42.000 might feel that there would be 01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.000 a scintilla of discrimination 01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.000 they've experienced the typical 01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:49.000 analysis of discrimination 01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:50.000 both in the employment and 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:52.000 in the education context says 01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:54.000 that there -- severe 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:55.000 and pervasive is something 01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:56.000 that comes up a lot the 01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:58.000 discrimination and the pattern needs 01:07:58.000 --> 01:07:61.000 to be so onerous and so severe 01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:03.000 and so -- so pervasive 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:04.000 that the university would be 01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:06.000 liable for the discrimination 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:08.000 so I would argue that someone 01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:10.000 that allowing a speaker not 01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:11.000 endorsing speaker not doing 01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:13.000 anything but following the 01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:14.000 First Amendment would not give 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:16.000 rise to a discrimination claim 01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:18.000 by you or any other student 01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:21.000 who might have missed class 01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:22.000 separately it does not mean 01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:24.000 though that you feeling that you 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:25.000 had to miss class is something 01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:26.000 that we like or that is a good 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:28.000 thing so like I said again 01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:31.000 the legal lens is one data 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:32.000 point and that's where a lot 01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:34.000 of universities are right now 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:35.000 they contend with this I went 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:37.000 to my professional conference 01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:38.000 and one of the sessions was 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:40.000 three hours of chief legal 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:41.000 officer sitting in a room and 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:44.000 just complaining to each other 01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:45.000 and it is the most valuable 01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:46.000 thing of the conference and I 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:48.000 will say -- one of 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:50.000 our one of the wisest people 01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:53.000 is the general counsel for Penn State University and this was 01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:54.000 on the minds of all these legal 01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.000 officers we said things similar 01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:58.000 to what I said and he was like 01:08:58.000 --> 01:08:60.000 that's the easy part of our job 01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:01.000 we're not done we still need 01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:03.000 to listen to our students so I 01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:05.000 I hope that me constantly talking 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:07.000 about the law and I will always 01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:08.000 do it for my for my board and my president 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:10.000 my university doesn't end the 01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:12.000 end the question but I would say 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:13.000 if I had to defend that case I 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:16.000 would say that a speaker consistent 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:17.000 with the First Amendment 01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:19.000 does not rise to the level of 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:20.000 severe and pervasive for 01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:22.000 an anti discrimination claim thank you 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:23.000 and I do want to say that I 01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.000 understand the absolute ordeal 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:26.000 that you guys went through and 01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:27.000 how much work went into this 01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:29.000 how much thought went into it and I 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:30.000 do understand that there are 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:31.000 certain things that you simply 01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:33.000 cannot do and I appreciate 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:34.000 what was actually done in the 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:35.000 situation and things that are 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:37.000 continuing such as this event 01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.000 conversation so I do appreciate 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.000 that -- I have another question 01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:45.000 sort of regarding the wall and 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:47.000 sort of regarding an internal 01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:49.000 sort of school thing -- I know 01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:52.000 that in the months leading 01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:53.000 up to the event the College 01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.000 Republicans oftentimes were 01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:57.000 tabling -- by outside the 01:09:57.000 --> 01:09:60.000 WUC or inside the WUC and I 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.000 know that I have heard a lot 01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:04.000 of anecdotal evidence about 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.000 slurs being said people being 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:10.000 targeted people being harassed 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:16.000 again I know that they are 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:19.000 a school you know funded -- 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:21.000 club and I wish that my school 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:22.000 fees were not going to fund 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:23.000 these events but I understand 01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:24.000 that you as a public entity 01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:26.000 are not able to censor that 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:30.000 accordance with our values 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:31.000 and with school rules what are 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:34.000 the consequences or recourse 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.000 that we have to protect other 01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:38.000 students from being targeted 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:40.000 by students and also what are 01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:41.000 the consequences or recourses 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:43.000 that we have against their 01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:45.000 advisor Debbie Kenyon who is 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:47.000 enabling this by endorsing you 01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:48.000 know endorsing their actions 01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:50.000 and being there -- and she's an 01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:52.000 educator and is entrusted with 01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:54.000 the safety of the students and 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:56.000 she is endangering them by and 01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:57.000 I know that this gets really 01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:59.000 prickly with legal things but 01:10:59.000 --> 01:10:60.000 I'm just wondering how can we 01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:02.000 as a university have educators 01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:05.000 that are employed that are 01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:06.000 harming their students that 01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:11.000 are part of the student body 01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:13.000 I mean I think that -- I'll 01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:14.000 start even though I don't think 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:15.000 this is a legal question I mean 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:18.000 I think that I can 01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:19.000 talk about statutes and Civil 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:21.000 Rights Act and the Constitution 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:22.000 until I'm blue in the face 01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:24.000 and frequently do but that 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:26.000 doesn't mean that we that a 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:28.000 community needs to be mean to 01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:29.000 each other I mean I think that 01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:30.000 we sometimes feel that we 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:32.000 have to escalate things to the 01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:33.000 President's office or to Ryan's 01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:35.000 office certainly there are a 01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:36.000 multiplicity of ways to file 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.000 complaints and grievances 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.000 and the anti bias form we all have 01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:41.000 those resources to ensure that 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:44.000 these things surface but even 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:45.000 if something doesn't rise 01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:46.000 to Ryan's level of severe or 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:47.000 pervasive doesn't mean it's 01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:50.000 right and so we can speak to 01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:51.000 Gary's office we can speak 01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:52.000 to Tina's office we can talk 01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:53.000 to people there are ways to 01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:55.000 kind of talk to people to say 01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:57.000 that it just wasn't cool and 01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:58.000 sometimes we'll bring people in 01:11:58.000 --> 01:11:60.000 and just have that conversation 01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:01.000 even though we can't charge 01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:02.000 them under the student conduct 01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:03.000 code even though I can't 01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:05.000 expel them unilaterally we can 01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:06.000 still talk to people 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.000 but at a deescalated level so 01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:11.000 it's -- you would hope 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:12.000 that that kind of thing doesn't 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:14.000 come to my office because that's when it 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:16.000 gets severe that's when it's a 01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:17.000 discrimination lawsuit type of 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:19.000 world we would hope that this 01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:20.000 community would be culturally 01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:22.000 competent enough to say that's 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:24.000 not right but I'm gonna go talk 01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:26.000 I'm gonna talk to my adviser and 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.000 hopefully be in the situation 01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:33.000 the lowest level possible so 01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:35.000 my hope is that never becomes 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:37.000 a legal issue but becomes 01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:38.000 a community issue that's 01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:42.000 resolved by the community itself thank you 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:43.000 and I do want to add that 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:45.000 to the best of my knowledge 01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.000 there was no formal reports 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.000 of anything like that filed to ASWOU 01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.000 or reported to ASWOU -- if 01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:53.000 there was just as Ryan had said 01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:55.000 we would've -- followed 01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:56.000 up with it and made sure that 01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:58.000 those were issues that did not 01:12:58.000 --> 01:12:61.000 arise again so actually on that 01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:02.000 I was going to ask you because 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:03.000 I only found out during this 01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:04.000 event that making a report like 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:06.000 that was a possibility and so 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:07.000 that was a process that I had 01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:09.000 to learn about and so I think 01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:10.000 that maybe the campus at large 01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.000 doesn't know that that's available and 01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:13.000 maybe doesn't feel comfortable 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:14.000 making those types of reports 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:16.000 so what would you say that how 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:17.000 do students access that I know 01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:20.000 that it's -- through ASWOU correct when 01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:22.000 they report that well one of the 01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:24.000 ways -- yeah one of the ways 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.000 that it can be reported we have 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:28.000 the student concern report -- 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:29.000 that can be accessed through 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:31.000 your -- -- through your -- 01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:34.000 report -- sorry Portal you 01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:35.000 can access it through your 01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:38.000 Portal -- that would be -- one 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:39.000 of the ways to report a more 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:41.000 general concern but I mean 01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:42.000 if it's -- specifically if 01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:45.000 it's the conduct of a club during 01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:46.000 tabling or during one of 01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:47.000 their events that would be 01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:48.000 something that -- could be 01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:50.000 reported straight to ASWOU we have 01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:53.000 our own -- internal mechanisms 01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:55.000 that we couldn't deal with 01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.000 then most certainly we'd be in 01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.000 consultation with the VPSA about 01:13:59.000 --> 01:13:62.000 how to go about fixing that 01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:06.000 why I mean as far as ASWOU 01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:08.000 to the best of my knowledge 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:09.000 there was no formalized reports 01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:10.000 otherwise we would have 01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:17.000 followed up with it thank you 01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:18.000 we have many more 01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.000 audience questions 01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:22.000 I actually have a quick one for 01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:25.000 Ryan -- I know that there were 01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:27.000 some -- protests of the event 01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:29.000 here on our campus when it took 01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:31.000 place and is it the case that 01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:32.000 under free speech law people 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:35.000 protesting the event also have 01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:36.000 free speech rights absolutely 01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:42.000 another long lecture -- I mean 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.000 the answer is absolutely 01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:45.000 but the lens of that is what we 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:47.000 call forum analysis and so there 01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:49.000 the First Amendment with what 01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:50.000 comes to public property talks 01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:51.000 about there could be certain 01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:53.000 places that are designated 01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:54.000 public so if something 01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:55.000 is a public forum the right 01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:57.000 to express yourself is quite 01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:60.000 wide so sidewalks parks plazas 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:01.000 those types of things are 01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:03.000 quintessential public forum and 01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:05.000 protest that's where protests 01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:07.000 happens and it is highly 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.000 unlikely if not impossible to 01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:11.000 regulate the -- expressive 01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.000 activity in a public forum 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:14.000 what the what the Supreme 01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:15.000 Court has also allowed however 01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:17.000 is what are called designated 01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:18.000 public forum and non public 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:20.000 forum so those are things 01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:22.000 that public agencies can do 01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:24.000 to say we recognize this but 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:25.000 but this is not gonna happen 01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:27.000 the example of the -- 01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:29.000 the list service is exactly that 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:31.000 the university has designated 01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:33.000 for certain types of speech and 01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:34.000 so if someone said you censored my 01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:36.000 speech you moderated my speech 01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:37.000 my reply to that is it that's 01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:39.000 the rules we wrote because as 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:41.000 a public entity we designated 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:43.000 that as a public forum for 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:45.000 certain activities so it would 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.000 be different than a traditional 01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:48.000 public forum so when you're 01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:50.000 talking about protests 01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:51.000 that's the lens we use 01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:53.000 is is a classroom a 01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:55.000 public forum no we don't allow 01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.000 general protest activity in 01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:59.000 the classroom because it's not 01:15:59.000 --> 01:15:61.000 a traditional or designated 01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:03.000 public forum do we -- 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:05.000 can we regulate it on sidewalks 01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:07.000 very hard to do the only real 01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:08.000 way we could regulate something 01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:10.000 in a traditional public 01:16:10.000 --> 01:16:11.000 forum are -- content 01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:13.000 neutral time place manner 01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:15.000 restrictions so you can't be 01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.000 loud you can't do this that 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:18.000 has nothing to do with a view 01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:20.000 point but everything to do 01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.000 with just keeping the peace you can't 01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:24.000 block a sidewalk you might need 01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.000 to get a permit that applies to 01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:29.000 everyone regardless of context so when 01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:30.000 it comes a traditional public 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.000 forum like parks and plazas and 01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:34.000 sidewalks expressive activity 01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:36.000 abound but that doesn't mean 01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:38.000 every space on a public campus 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:40.000 needs to indulge in that 01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:42.000 protest activity the university 01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:44.000 as the public entity has the 01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:45.000 ability to designate public 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:47.000 forum and to designate 01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:48.000 something as a non public 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:50.000 forum and that's very routine 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:52.000 for cities counties states 01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:57.000 universities agencies to do that 01:16:57.000 --> 01:16:59.000 so counter speech is 01:16:59.000 --> 01:16:61.000 a strategy available to those who 01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:06.000 object to a particular speaker 01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:07.000 yeah and if I could -- 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:08.000 President Fuller had mentioned 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:09.000 a book that he read at the 01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:11.000 beginning and I also recently 01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:13.000 just finished another one that 01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:14.000 took a much different angle -- 01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:16.000 more through an equality lens 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:18.000 and less through legal lens so 01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:19.000 it out there in case anyone was 01:17:19.000 --> 01:17:21.000 interested -- the author's 01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:23.000 name Ulrich - U L R I C H 01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:26.000 Baer B A E R and the book is called 01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:28.000 What the Snowflakes Get Right 01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:29.000 truth equality and 01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:31.000 free speech on the university 01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:33.000 campus so the book that 01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:35.000 President Fuller mentioned was 01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:36.000 very eye opening and this one 01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:37.000 comes at it from a completely 01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:39.000 different angle that I think 01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:40.000 those of us who care about 01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:42.000 diversity and -- inclusivity 01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:44.000 and so forth will find that 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:45.000 book pretty compelling so just 01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:49.000 wanted to throw that out there 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:50.000 any other questions from 01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:53.000 the audience any quick 01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:54.000 follow up statements from 01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:58.000 any of our panelists 01:17:58.000 --> 01:17:61.000 can I make a comment okay and this 01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:02.000 is just because this is something 01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:03.000 I didn't necessarily hear 01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:06.000 discussed -- the right to 01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:07.000 freedom of speech like we said 01:18:07.000 --> 01:18:09.000 before is extended to everybody 01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:10.000 and as we talked about today 01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.000 there's a lot of diversity 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:15.000 here on campus as well 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.000 as ideologically difference and just as 01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:19.000 we have the ability to bring 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:21.000 speakers that we don't like and 01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:23.000 then welcome them to campus other 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:24.000 people who don't share our same 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:26.000 ideologies have those same 01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:29.000 me when I heard Joey Gibson 01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:31.000 was coming to campus as a 01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:34.000 formerly undocumented Latino 01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:36.000 I welcomed his presence because 01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:38.000 when I found out he was going 01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:39.000 to come I made sure that I 01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:40.000 was going to go to the event 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:43.000 to push back on his ideology 01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:44.000 I believe in a marketplace 01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:47.000 of ideas the strongest most 01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:49.000 the strongest ideas will 01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:50.000 prevail and the ones that held 01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:52.000 prejudice will crumble under 01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:53.000 their own weight in that case 01:18:53.000 --> 01:18:56.000 it's my invitation that when 01:18:56.000 --> 01:18:57.000 you hear speech that you don't 01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:59.000 agree with the challenge it 01:18:59.000 --> 01:18:62.000 go against it don't try to silence 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:03.000 it because silencing it only 01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:06.000 empowers it so understand we are 01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:08.000 a diverse community and 01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:09.000 those ideologies if you tried 01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:11.000 to silence them it would only 01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:13.000 make them worse that's my only 01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:15.000 thing I wanted to add to this 01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:16.000 discussion because I didn't 01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:17.000 hear that but that's that's my 01:19:17.000 --> 01:19:26.000 take on that thank you for that comment 01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:29.000 from our panelists 01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:33.000 or have you all talked enough for today 01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:35.000 I want to hammer home the 01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:36.000 the point -- it hammered home 01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:44.000 my point about about how proud 01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:45.000 the student government was 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:46.000 about how the students 01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:47.000 came together to look out for 01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:49.000 each other during these times 01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:53.000 been as just a member of the 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:55.000 community but also -- it was 01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:57.000 very -- --in a rough first 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:60.000 day of my term as president 01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:02.000 that was the most -- the 01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:03.000 that was about the best thing 01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:05.000 that kept me going was seeing 01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:06.000 how students stuck up for 01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:07.000 each other so I want to thank 01:20:07.000 --> 01:20:08.000 everyone who went out of their 01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:10.000 way -- that day and in the build 01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:13.000 up and afterwards -- in the 01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:15.000 aftermath that made this 01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:17.000 campus -- uphold the values 01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:22.000 that we all set for ourselves 01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:25.000 anyone else 01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:27.000 I want to thank everyone for coming -- 01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:28.000 and -- I really appreciate 01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:30.000 the -- the way we have 01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:32.000 an open and thoughtful 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.000 discussion I think this is also 01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:35.000 a demonstration of what Western 01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:38.000 is to echo what Erik just said 01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:41.000 and I echo the statement closing 01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:42.000 statement about marketplace 01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:44.000 of ideas and the idea 01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:46.000 that we need to challenge 01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:48.000 ideas that are offensive 01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:50.000 and without merit and -- try 01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:51.000 to replace them with things 01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:53.000 that are thoughtful and in the best 01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:54.000 interests of our society going 01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:56.000 forward that's what Western has done 01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:58.000 historically and I believe we 01:20:58.000 --> 01:20:60.000 will continue to do that in coming 01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:03.000 months and years thank you all